Riley Posted May 24, 2010 Share #301 Posted May 24, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) yeah thats right, after all, its not like anyone ever did this before right.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 24, 2010 Posted May 24, 2010 Hi Riley, Take a look here The M10 or a new camera line? [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
georg Posted May 24, 2010 Share #302 Posted May 24, 2010 They basically squetched MFDB-technology (CCD + DSP) into a body smaller than any 24x36mm-DSLR which consumes lots of energy and creates lots of heat usually handled within much larger bodies. So live-view + EVF is not really an issue of heat & energy but finding the right technology partners for the CMOS-sensor (Cypress and Dalsa comes to mind) and the ASIC which efficiently controls (and extracts from the sensor) live-view and sends it to an EVF (which basically is a beamer-panel + LED-backlight - not too exotic). Small specialists in the digital cinematography-market have shown that these custom-made solutions are possible even at much smaller production numbers and with a much higher quality than the consumer-EVF/live-view-solutions we know today from Olympus or Panasonic, I seriously hope that Leica will take this route - instead of squetching consumer-technology in a nice body (X1). IMHO they have this chance NOW and propably never again with no exisiting DSLR-system at all, while the major 24x36-DSLR players want to stick to their established systems as long as possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 24, 2010 Share #303 Posted May 24, 2010 yeah thats right, after all, its not like anyone ever did this before right.... ...it's because they've done it before that they know better than to underestimate the work involved... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted May 24, 2010 Share #304 Posted May 24, 2010 Hehe! Don't try to ward off bad fortune Geoff. Your bet is over now. But never mind i will invite you in my new house in OZ when i win it. Well it seems that you do not want to lose your house but will bet a bottle of cider. So I shall match your bet with some local wine. So you bet me that the next M camera model will have a detachable electronic viewfinder??? We shall see. I hope that it is nice cider and the postage is not too expensive. Don't worry, you should have until around Photokina 2012 before you have to pay up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 24, 2010 Share #305 Posted May 24, 2010 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 24, 2010 Share #306 Posted May 24, 2010 We shall see. I hope that it is nice cider and the postage is not too expensive Who said anything about postage? The bottle will be at LCT's waiting for you to collect it <grin>. One of the most pleasant lunches I've ever had was in the town of Paimpol and involved some wild sea bass and a bottle of Breton cider. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted May 24, 2010 Share #307 Posted May 24, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Georg those sound to be a reasonable summary of what may be theoretically involved. However it does not take into account whether Leica Camera wants or needs to produce such a design, whether it makes sense in the market place for them whether they have the capacity to support such a project and attract a different partner for the sensor when the M has unique requirements. But never mind, these threads never seem to change anyone's position or opinions. It's all just chatter for entertainment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 25, 2010 Share #308 Posted May 25, 2010 ....One of the most pleasant lunches I've ever had was in the town of Paimpol and involved some wild sea bass and a bottle of Breton cider. Was at the 'Restaurant du port' perhaps. Paimpol - Restaurant du Port Now Breton cider is like American whiskey. Nothing's better than Normandy cider. Mine is produced in the village near my country house. Pity that Geoff won't taste it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 25, 2010 Share #309 Posted May 25, 2010 LCT, I don't think so. The resto had a terrace, but I don't think it was a large as the one in your link. the cidre - bouche of course - was great. I could have stayed for several bottles, but had to drive east. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted May 25, 2010 Share #310 Posted May 25, 2010 Even if they only show prototypes of their future system on Photokina in September, they already finished major design work and did all the crucial decisions - so it's really just a "chatter for entertainment" ... Let's see what happens in September! My guess: a completely new Full-Frame-EVIL system with a few AF-varios and a R/M-adapter and the "M" remains the traditional rangefinder system for the coming years - no major redesigns, no major lens-updates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted May 26, 2010 Share #311 Posted May 26, 2010 Let's see what happens in September! My guess: a completely new Full-Frame-EVIL system with a few AF-varios and a R/M-adapter and the "M" remains the traditional rangefinder system for the coming years - no major redesigns, no major lens-updates. How about a choice of a clip on EVF or a clip on coupled rangefinder/viewfinder? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierovitch Posted May 26, 2010 Share #312 Posted May 26, 2010 How about an X based prototype with M mount and R adaptor. Only available to forum members, limited edition, leased as beta test equipment, not for resale and under non a disclosure agreement. Comes with private secure forum exclusive to beta testers and a software development kit for those who know better. Any volunteers? of course you would not be allowed on this forum or to post photos - too risky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 26, 2010 Share #313 Posted May 26, 2010 How do you know this isn't happening already ^^ This is a joke, btw, before anyone gets too excited ^^ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierovitch Posted May 26, 2010 Share #314 Posted May 26, 2010 How do you know this isn't happening already ^^ This is a joke, btw, before anyone gets too excited ^^ Wouldn't want Leica rumors running with this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 26, 2010 Share #315 Posted May 26, 2010 Heaven forbid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted May 26, 2010 Share #316 Posted May 26, 2010 ELet's see what happens in September! My guess: a completely new Full-Frame-EVIL system with a few AF-varios and a R/M-adapter and the "M" remains the traditional rangefinder system for the coming years - no major redesigns, no major lens-updates. I think it is impossible to develop a 24x36 system which allows the use of M lenses... except if the mount is a modified M mount... Lens to flange distance is too short. The possibilities are three: 1) M mount with new electronic contacts for new AF lenses (and adapter for R lenses); 2) or a new mount which allows the use of R lenses, but not M lenses; 3) a smaller than 24x36 format and a shorter lens-to-flange distance than that of the M system. In theory, the solution 1) is the best, because it maximizes the synergies among Leica lines of cameras. But I see serious technical problems. For instance, microlenses should be adapted to the M particularities, and is that compatible with a more "telecentric" (so to speak) system like the R? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 26, 2010 Share #317 Posted May 26, 2010 ...3) a smaller than 24x36 format and a shorter lens-to-flange distance than that of the M system.... In other words an APS Pana or PanaLeica EVIL like this. Would not cannibalize M9 sales and with good microlenses, could fit legacy R and M lenses with adapters as well as a new set of Pana or PanaLeica lenses. Not that bad if it doesn't sell at FF prices IMHO. Source: Panasonic Patent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted May 26, 2010 Share #318 Posted May 26, 2010 Ok, let's recap: It's very unlikely that an Leica-developed/manufactured (a Panaleica was already ruled out by Leica) system with a very high price-tag (3-6k€) would use a consumer-sized APS-C-sensor and to describe this system as a worthy R10-replacement (as promised) as well. -> larger than APS-C but smaller than S2 A rangefinder-system with additional EVF also seems unlikely given the high cost of the rangefinder-system itself and the AF implemented into the new system. -> the new system stays away from the traditional/compatible approach of the M-line IMHO these two points are almost certain, the big question is the possible compatibility with the M-lenses. They won't limit a new AF-system with a modified m-mount - too small, too many restricitions for complex designs/ varios... So it's going to have a larger diameter (propably similar to the R-mount) but with electric contacts only. But what about the flange distance? They could use a smaller than M-distance (<28mm), therefore allow even more freedom in lens-design, a thinner body and of course the only camera-system in the world which fully supports R & M-lenses! Or they choose a longer flange distance to only allow the adaption of a minority of older Leica-lenses ® instead of their current line-up - just to make certain lens-designs appear shorter (because they don't have to create the necessary distance within their barrel like R90AA vs. M90AA)? I seriously hope they don't make this mistake. Remember, lenses for a mount with short flange distance can be less telecentric, but they don't have to be. They can make "optimzed" new lenses AND a M-compatible mount for "less optimized" designs. Shifted microlenses are already capable to handle both lens designs quite well. Damn, I want to use my 50Asph AND my R180 on this thing! Or I'm completely wrong and it's another X1 with an old Sony-sensor, slow processing and a tiny Panasonic-EVF with a red dot made in Germany, while the S2-team sits around since over one year and does nothing... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 26, 2010 Share #319 Posted May 26, 2010 ... ...Or I'm completely wrong and it's another X1 with an old Sony-sensor, slow processing and a tiny Panasonic-EVF with a red dot made in Germany... Made in China. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted May 26, 2010 Share #320 Posted May 26, 2010 At least the Panaleicas are still based on upper-class Panasonic-cameras still made in Japan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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