No flash socket on M8 /M9 - is it a problem?

[Guest BigSplash]

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I have successfully used a hot shoe adapter to normal flash socket to trigger studio lighting setup. After talking with Stefan Daniels sometime ago he assured me that the M8 has a heavy duty transistor /thyristor so it is not susceptible to spikes as are some japanese cameras. I use three lights where two are slaved. I have also used a small flah in the hot shoe and have had the three studio lights as slaves.

 

This weekend I used a Visoflex and was forced to use the vertical viewer and a hot shoe to flash adapter. The Viso with the normal 90 degree viewer covers the hots shoe and I see this as an issue. Has anyone any ideas of how to overcome this problem and indeed do people see the lack of a flash socket as an issue.

[andybarton]

"No flash socket on M8 /M9 - is it a problem?"

 

It's obviously a problem to you

 

What are you photographing that needs a visoflex and three flash guns? (If that's not an impertinent question)

 

I think you have found why the phrase "horses for courses" was invented.

 

I have no idea how many other people would need to use a flash socket on an M, these days, but I doubt whether it is very many.

[Guest BigSplash]

Andy I have been photographing (1) my complete Leica lens and camera collection plus individual lenses for insurance purposes (2) some art work sculptures form my daughter (3) some baby portraits are planned and shall now that I have all the kit temporarily set up I shall take some shots of a marine computer that I am about to commercialise and need quality images of.

 

I use the Digilux 2 for the most of the complete Leica kit and found the definition poor compared to a Leica M8 with Viso + bellows + 65mm Elmar, which can yield professional studio results.

 

To be clear I fully recognise that I could do all of the above with a single flash mounted in the hot shoe ...however that yields a snap shot.

 

If you want really great shots then the technique seems to be to use two strobes pointing into white umbrellas to give a diffuse light plus one strobe with barn doors or a focussed reflector at the main subject to get some shadows happening.

 

At least that is what my neighbour tells me and he is a pro with several Phase One and Hasselblad cameras plus two studios. He has his own company that shoots for high value antiques that go into prestige catalogues. He calls himself an artist of light rather than a photographer by the way! I am NOT in his league I just am trying to get some great images using a M8.

[andybarton]

 

At least that is what my neighbour tells me and he is a pro with several Phase One and Hasselblad cameras plus two studios.

 

There's your problem. You are trying to copy what your neighbour does for a living, without any of his kit, apart from the lights. He wouldn't even begin to do that work with an M and an old Visoflex. Does he know that's what you are trying to do? Why not think for yourself and ask yourself if what you are doing is sensible?

 

Why not buy a Hasselblad to do this work? That's what it's designed for. Or, alternatively, pay your neighbour to do it for you - he's a professional.

 

Like I said, you are trying to ride a nag in the Grand National - it'll never be satisfactory.

 

Snapshots are fine for insurance photographs, btw. Just make sure that you can read the SNs of your kit in the prints.

[Guest BigSplash]

Andy is it not just possible that I could use my bellows, Viso an M8 with a choice of 12 lenses plus three flash heads with umbrellas, barn doors etc to deliver much better images than a snapshot, but not as good as a Phase One or Hasselblad that for me represents a TOTALLY NEW INVESTMENT.

 

I recognise that I would need to learn, and develop my skills but then that is something I like about photography as a hobby. That is why I am an amateur photographer! I am not under any pressure to deliver results of highest quality on a certain date.

 

In the case of the marine computer if I do not have excellent images at launch date of course I shall go to my professional neighbour for help but that is for a business need.

 

Going back to the issue I believe that there are some people who want to use a Visoflex with a flash setup, or lighting setup . It is very difficult to do. I think that is a problem.

 

There are other people who want to do portrait work with studio lighting set ups ..this needs an adapter for the hot shoe (simple flash socket or IR transmitter module, or wireless transmitter with its receivers). I ask if others see this as an issue and would prefer the return of the flash socket or a way to use the USB socket to achieve the same result.

[bill]

Ah, a new angle on a very old and stinky dead horse...

 

I can imagine the scene at the insurance assessors now.

 

"Tarquin, just look at the detail in this image! The colours, the depth of field, the mastery of not one, not two, but what is clearly three flashes to render the object so clearly!"

 

"Indeed, Aubrey, such splendid work. Clearly this individual has far too much time on his hands, and a vast and impressive array of photo equipment - we should up his premiums immediately!"

 

"Pass me my iPhone, old chap - I must just snap another Gainsborough."

[Guest BigSplash]

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Bill I know that the very idea of using a Viso on a M is in your eyes a joke, compound that by using studio lighting that I already own since 15 years must be terrible for you.

 

Should amateurs NOT try to use studio lighting?

 

In the past I have been told to go out and buy Canon or Nikon based DSLR's rather than use my Viso...which certainly would be easier to use but why should I make this investment?

 

My real issue is not to get into a debate about the Viso or methodologies to use a Leica M with its fabulous capabilities and lenses in macro mode. We have had that debate and many people on this forum like their Viso very much. I am one of them.

 

Here I am just asking whether I am alone in wanting a flash socket on a M9 (or M10 when it comes). Why the attack?

[bill]

Bill I know that the very idea of using a Viso on a M is in your eyes a joke

 

Show me where I said that...

 

I have happily used a Viso III before now. Again you distort my words. Horses for courses. And you are back to flogging your favourite dead one.

[giordano]

Here I am just asking whether I am alone in wanting a flash socket on a M9 (or M10 when it comes).

 

You're not alone. I'm not too bothered about the Visoflex, but this also hits anyone who wants to use an M8 or M9 with both a wide angle lens and flash. I can't think of any other professional camera that has one hotshoe and no synch socket, and IMHO the omission is a great discredit to the Leica organisation.

[Guest BigSplash]

Show me where I said that...

 

I have happily used a Viso III before now. Again you distort my words. Horses for courses. And you are back to flogging your favourite dead one.

 

You have USED a Viso III -and that is indeed good news as it gives you some experience and relevance, credibility to your views. You do not own a Viso as I understand it yet have strong opinions.

I would believe that you have maybe possibly also used a M digital (M8 M9) at least I hope so. However you have again as I understand it not bought one so your experience and commitment to M digital is occassional usage. Pity it really is a great camera Bill.

 

You say horses for courses ....I guess that means we should consider a Canon or Nikon DSLR body against a Viso...In my view there is no contest, and never has been if today you want to enter the macro world as a pro.

 

As the OP here I am asking about a flash socket on the M9/M10 being a need for those of us that wish to use their old kit that includes a Viso.

 

I am actually asking if I am the only one on this forum that wants to see a flash socket on a digital M8 or M9. I have not raised this as an issue before so what is the comment "flogging your favourite dead horse" .

 

I agree I see it as a need for Viso user but I also see it as a need for those that wish to use studio lights for portrait etc.

 

We have had threads about the suitability of a M digital camera for studio usage and tethering (whatever that means in detail specification) . So why the attack about suggesting the need for a flash socket on a M8 / M9. I actually think that this could be a great Solms upgrade for those that want it on a M8. .....It seems that the in camera electronics is far ahead of competition Japanese cameras and we are talking about a socket ad a bit of soldering internally to support what I would like to see!

[pop]

I own no M8, no M9, no Visoflex and no flash.

 

However, I can see how being unable to use a flash and the visoflex at the same time can be annoying.

 

According to OP's description, the hot shoe is covered by the visoflex in certain circumstances. I can't see how it is material whether OP wants to fire one, three or nine flashes once the only means of firing even one flash appears to be unreachable.

 

Is there anything I am missing, or is it really that contrary to the Leica spirit to use a flash and a visoflex at the same time?

 

"Buy other gear" does not seem to be a very constructive answer, does it?

[fotoism]

BigSplash:

I am in the same situation and I can totally see your point. There are people who do not use visoflex because of many reasons, and there are those who do. It may not be as convenient as a modern SLR but it is a piece of history and I find it fun to use (with bellows or Telyts), since I don't use it to meet deadlines or make a living with it.

 

The problem here is that the 90 degree angle viewfinder leaves only a couple of mm clearance off the top of the M8/M9, so it is not possible to fit in a hot shoe to sync outlet adapter for an external flash. However, if you go on the German version of the big auction site you will find a 90 degree angle viewfinder with an extended foot, which lifts the entire viewfinder up a few cm off the top of the camera, enough to install the said adapter. It is one of the special visoflexes, probable for medical use, and the price is unreal. I pointed it out only for information purposes and I myself would definitely not spent the money on it.

 

Another thought comes to mind. I read somewhere the creator of Thumbs-Up is working on a new model with hot-shoe connection. I wonder if that will be flat enough to slide under the viewfinder and if it will have a sync socket on the side/back.

 

Until then, it will be royally inconvenient to use the visoflex and a flash together other than utilizing the vertical viewfinder.

[earleygallery]

I must admit I was surprised when I found out that Leica had omitted the flash socket from the M8/9 - in fact I remember saying that one of the leaked M8 images must have been fake because there was no pc socket!

 

It's also missing from the X1, so it's useless as a camera to use with a viewfinder and flash at the same time (maybe I'm crazy, or do other people think they might like to do that?) - OK it has the built in flash which could be used to trigger a flash but if you prefer to use off camera flash then it's not ideal.

 

Interestingly they do fit a flash socket to the S2.

[jaapv]

There should be a very flat flash extension cord around somewhere. I would like either that or a sync socket as well. I guess Leica left it off because you cannot address the TTL functions though a soket.

[earleygallery]

I guess Leica left it off because you cannot address the TTL functions though a soket.

 

Sames goes for the S2 but it has one!

[jaapv]

That is true, James, but then the S2 is a camera that might be used in a studio setting with slaves etc and measured exposure - it only needs a sync connection in that case.

[ismon]

We are less likely to use our Visos than viewfinders for our ultra-wide lenses. Would you rather compose the picture, or be able to trigger your multiple flash set? Apparently Leica forgot that M cameras aren't SLRs--they do need viewfinders. They probably would sell a lot more "frankenfinders" if they included a PC connection to the hotshoe.

[wparsonsgisnet]

There is an earlier post about this -- and a reference to a gadget-builder who made a thin adapter to fit under the Viso housing. I'll see if I can find it.

 

Here's the link to a Michael Bass product:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/117041-flash-visoflex-m9.html

[Jamie Roberts]

You're not alone. I'm not too bothered about the Visoflex, but this also hits anyone who wants to use an M8 or M9 with both a wide angle lens and flash. I can't think of any other professional camera that has one hotshoe and no synch socket, and IMHO the omission is a great discredit to the Leica organisation.

 

Totally agreed. I have no use for TTL, but having a wide finder or even another flash in the hotshoe means I cannot trigger remote lights (on location, not in the studio) from my digital Ms.

 

Thankfully PocketWizards newest transmitters have a pass-through hot-shoe and other outputs in addition to radio (on the Flex), though that's not really satisfactory for a finder.

 

It's truly a weird omission, and I hope Leica fixes in the next M camera.

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[giordano]

Interestingly they do fit a flash socket to the S2.

 

It wouldn't be credible in its market without one ... and what does that imply about the digital Ms?