Sean Reid's review of Ricoh GXR/A12 compares it to X1

[Guest malland]

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Sean Reid has published a review of the Ricoh GXR/A12, with interesting comparisons to the Leica X1, on his pay site Reid Reviews, together with a "second opinion" by me. He also has a free article titled "GXR - Where does it fit" on Luminous Landscape.

 

—Mitch/Toronto

Tropical Light

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[jsrockit]

I'm not paying for a gear review site because it'll perpetuate GAS for me. However, I'd love to hear the conclusion as to what he thought if someone can summarize (and not plagiarize).

[diogenis]

Yea, I saw the review. Fine and all, but I once more say the obvious: what really amazes me with Leica and the M is exactly this rangefinder pure optical and simple principle. Look at the problems Leica and Ricoh have with their X1 and GXR cameras be it manual or autofocus. Yet, you just take an M, look through its amazingly simply, luminous and perfect VF, and in a moment you focus exactly where you want, no worries about apertures, light, contrast or whatever... If only Leica kept this simple principle and added some ideas using some electronic gizmos, it would have made the thing so robust and so 21st century.... Come on Leica, where is your Apple heart when you need it?

[nippa]

you just take an M, look through its amazingly simply, luminous and perfect VF, and in a moment you focus exactly where you want

 

At the risk of being flamed that is not my experience of the M9 in poor light.The Rangefinder image was positively dim.

The M9 couldn't even recognise the right lens to adjust the frames without some persuasion. That's why I left it on the shelf and went home having travelled 200 miles to buy it.

 

Meanwhile the X1 has one of the most accurate autofocus systems I've used at the expense of a little speed and I'm loving it!.

[Guest badbob]

X1 beats M9? I love this comparison. Seems like a stretch, but a delicious irony nonetheless.

[diogenis]

At the risk of being flamed that is not my experience of the M9 in poor light.The Rangefinder image was positively dim.

The M9 couldn't even recognise the right lens to adjust the frames without some persuasion. That's why I left it on the shelf and went home having travelled 200 miles to buy it.

 

Meanwhile the X1 has one of the most accurate autofocus systems I've used at the expense of a little speed and I'm loving it!.

 

This is hardly my experience at all. Truth is, that if you can see the faintest objects in the dark with available light, chances are that you will be able to focus using the bright patch. Unless I am blessed with the eye of the tiger

 

X1 beats M9? I love this comparison. Seems like a stretch, but a delicious irony nonetheless.

 

I never implied such a thing. I don't understand what this clause mean. Beat which, what and how?

[barjohn]

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Frankly, I was disappointed in Sean's review for several reasons. First, he spent far too much of the review discussing the philosophy behind the sensor/lens combination approach than I believe was warranted. It is one of those things you either buy into or you don't. At first I thought it was a little crazy too and if you are looking for a camera with 5 or 6 different lenses it may not make sense. But if you are looking for a compact kit with 2 or 3 lenses it makes much more sense. In use it makes lens changing a snap (literally & figuratively) with no concern about dust or dirt or having a sensor cleaning kit at hand. It is so quick and easy both in handling and execution that I find myself changing as the need arises without hesitation. Second the review failed to include his normal lens comparison testing which might have been more insightful as to how well Ricoh executed on its lens and marriage between lens and sensor (resolution and CA). Third, I feel he allowed his bias against EVF based use as opposed to optical VF influence his viewpoint out of proportion to how it influences the ease of use of the camera. On the other hand the majority of the images he posted were shot at ISO 1600 or 3200 and looked very good and equaled or bettered similar shots done with the X1. Out of 28 shots from the Ricoh (9 were OOF test shots at ISO 200) leaving 21 shots, 4 were shot at 3200, 8 were shot at 1600, 2 were shot at 400 and 5 were shot at 200. (I have left out Mitch's shots). On the X1 part 2 review a total of 42 shots were posted 3 were OOF shots leaving 39 shots out of which 6 were at ISO 3200, 7 were at 1600, 3 at 800, 9 at 400, 7 at 200 and 7 were at 100. On both I left out the ISO test shots and crops. Lastly, his timing test do not match the results I get using shutter release test that I think is more accurate because it is easier to tell when to push the shutter when looking at an analog sweep hand as opposed to a digital stop watch.

 

Sean claimed a 1-2 second AF speed using QK-AF and spot mode. I consistently achieve a range from 1.05 to 1.1 seconds with the average being 1.08 seconds. In QK-AF with Multi point AF the range is 1.15 to 1.3 seconds with an average speed of 1.24 seconds. If one uses the FR-AF mode it slows down to a range of 1.45 seconds to 1.6 with an average of 1.53. Sean claimed that using FR-AF mode added 1-3 second to the AF time and that just doesn't match my measured times or experience.

[Dan States]

Frankly, I was disappointed in Sean's review for several reasons.

 

I guess we are all dissapointed when someone disagrees with our own opinions.

 

I'm still mystified by the small batch of people who seem to put a lot of energy into pumping the Ricoh on a Leica chat forum....If you like the Ricoh better go for it! Is there a Ricoh forum? That's a great place to talk about how your favorite hands the X1 it's butt in a sack:D

[diogenis]

So, John you are eager to dump and compare a typical SLR or M system for a camera gadget that makes you pay a premium just to have different size sensors in the end, because you cant carry a portable sensor cleaning solution ???

I can understand camera systems like the u4/3 and the X1, but I fail to do so with Ricoh

[barjohn]

Frankly, I was disappointed in Sean's review for several reasons.

 

I guess we are all dissapointed when someone disagrees with our own opinions.

 

I'm still mystified by the small batch of people who seem to put a lot of energy into pumping the Ricoh on a Leica chat forum....If you like the Ricoh better go for it! Is there a Ricoh forum? That's a great place to talk about how your favorite hands the X1 it's butt in a sack:D

 

You miss understand my disappointment. I am not a fanatic about any particular brand including Ricoh. If the Sony camera or a Nikon or Canon mirror-less APS-C compact comes along that betters the Ricoh in AF of VF technology with better IQ, etc. the Ricoh will be history. I am not in the habit I see in this forum of making excuses for a camera's short-commings. Whether the Ricoh fared better than the X1 or worse in Sean's review was not my issue and clearly when one compares the imagery the IQ was equal or maybe better for much less money. I was just disappointed because Sean allowed his bias for optical view finders to influence how he saw the camera and the lack of certain features that have been prominent in past reviews. Overall I have great respect for Sean and just didn't feel this review was up to the same standards he has employed in the past. I realize that some of this may be due to the fact that he is still in recovery from major surgery so I don't fault him too strongly.

 

One last note, if the Ricoh had as many problems as I have seen posted here on quality issues it would have been sold a long time ago. I don't pay $1,200 or $2,000 for a camera that has poor quality control in manufacture period!

[Guest stnami]

I guess we are all dissapointed when someone disagrees with our own opinions.

Hnm seems as if you are disappointed with John's opinion

[Dan States]

Hnm seems as if you are disappointed with John's opinion

 

Hey, that could be....or maybe I'm disappointed with my disappointment in John's disappointment. It's hard to say unless until I have this next double Bourbon....

[Guest stnami]

You probably are just disappointed that you misunderstood Johns disappointment, I hope that is understood for now....... then I guess there always is the chance that you won't be disappointed with that bourbon hangover that was due to your attempts to alievate John's disappointment inflicted upon you

[Guest malland]

...I can understand camera systems like the u4/3 and the X1, but I fail to do so with Ricoh

Ricoh provides some interesting information in nine web pages on the "GXR Inside Story" concerning "Planning and Design", "Design and Development" and "Future Prospects" here.

 

—Mitch/London

GXR/A12 Pictures

[diogenis]

Thanks for the link Mitch.

I can understand their thinking, what I do fail to understand is the necessity to follow this route. I agree I did not read the whole marketing article, but my question still remains:

What is the necessity, the real need one has to keep the sensor AND lens in the same exchangeable package. This might solve the dust situation, but it raises costs, and the GR3 is already expensive. It also is not very compact.

I am more convinced with the way Panasonic and Olympus went with u4/3 rather than Ricoh.

And of all those, I think the X1 wins in the end, just that the X1 needs a teleconverter thingy to solve lack of a larger lens.

Ricoh seems as if it was designed by Inspector Gadget

Edit: plus, I know that a tool that is designed and built to do one thing, does that job a lot better than something else that does a multitude of jobs

[Guest malland]

diogenes, I understand your point of view. As I wrote in the "second opinion" to Sean's review, I was very attracted by the concept of the sensor/lens modules and the way they slide in easily and lock firmly into place. Whether this concept succeeds will, of course, be determined by the market.

 

—Mitch/London

Barrier Series

[Guest stnami]

Sony despite their somewhat erratic DSLR range will trump the lot, they do make the sensors and Carl is there to lend a hand

[jsrockit]

Sony despite their somewhat erratic DSLR range will trump the lot, they do make the sensors and Carl is there to lend a hand

 

I hope you are right.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[stephen.w]

Sony despite their somewhat erratic DSLR range will trump the lot, they do make the sensors and Carl is there to lend a hand

I agree it looks like an exciting camera, but from the few pictures I have seen, there seems to be neither a built-in VF, nor a hotshoe to mount an external VF. Will you get one in pink or blue?

[barjohn]

You need to look at the latest pictures and rumors. The claim is that it will have an OVF and hot-shoe and external flash. The one shown looks good.