Leica M8 + HDR

[MikeMyers]

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I used to enjoy creating HDR images every so often. With the Nikon DSLR cameras, it was all so easy - put the camera on "bracketing" and then turn on "burst" mode, and it captured 3, 5, 7, or 9 images from which I could create an HDR image. I used to use the Photomatix software, or the function in Photoshop that does something similar.

 

I wanted to try it out with the Leica, just to see how hard it would be. The M9 makes this easier I think, as it has "bracketing" built in, but with the M8 I had to set everything up on a tripod, and quickly take 3 exposures, switching either the lens opening (which is what I tried today) or the shutter speed dial which would have been better as the depth of field would not change.

 

We had a halfway decent sunset in Miami today, so that's what I used for testing.

 

 

In use, the Nikon made things so much easier, but the Leica was simple enough to use. The tripod kept things aligned nicely, and I took several sets of 3 images.

 

I then tried to input three 'dng' images into my HDR program, Photomatix. The program complained that it didn't know how the exposures had varied - I assumed it wanted the f/stop and shutter-speed, so it would know the difference in exposure. I tried this again, using 'jpg' images, and the software now "guessed" that the EV settings were -1, 0, and +1. Once the program accepted these numbers, it processed the image.

 

The second problem was my fault, not that of the software. Three photos taken in a row of boats on the water is not a good combination to work with, as the boat moves between images! I found three images that were better, and tried again.

 

Eventually everything worked, so I decided that the Leica can be used for HDR work, but I'm hoping to find some way to get it to record the f/stop. Since the Leica doesn't "know" what f-stop the lens is set to, maybe that's impossible.

 

 

My one sample photo is posted here: mikemyers' Photos. It's not all that great an example of HDR, but this was only a test to see if I could get things working, and once I realized the water was not going to allow me to do what I wanted, I stopped.

 

 

My thoughts now are to maybe find an 'exif' editor, and manually enter the lens openings into the exif data. Anyone know if this can be done?

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[lanetomlane]

I also enjoy HDR (if interested see the Canada section of my website; link below) but I prefer to make the multi-images in the computer rather than camera.

 

I open the selected image in Photoshop Camera Raw, save the first without any exposure compensation, then save numerous images at a plus exposure and negative exposure. I usually save 7, or 9 images at 1/2 stop intervals and then put those into Photomatixs and let the software do it's stuff.

 

I've never really seen any advantage in actually taking multiple exposures in the camera. I would have thought that taking multiple images would have had the risk of slight movement of the tripod, maybe wind affecting foilage, people wandering into the image, plus the burden of physically having to carry the extra equipment.

 

Maybe you can correct me if I'm missing something.

_______________________________

Best regards, Tom

 

 

 

 

 

Photography by Tom Lane

[Gerard]

I must be turning into a grumpy old man as, while I appreciate many people will have the opposite view point to me and enjoy creating such images; I find HDR images generate a strong feeling of dislike inside. It’s uncontrollable and comes from deep within – it’s a passionate dislike of the end result. Think I should go and speak to a quack?

[jaapv]

It is not HDR that bothers you, it is bad technique. HDR well done is not something that leaps from the print, one hardly notices it, if at all.

[Big T]

Mike I had the same issue with the DNG files not having exposure recognised by Photomatix.

 

So now I convert the DNGs to JPGs and all is good.

 

Love the M8.2 for HDR work. Easy, quick and works a treat.

 

[vanhulsenbeek]

Results can be even more interesting , and less challenging to one's taste, when converted to B&W:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/landscape-travel/85236-scotland-b-w-hdr-view-loch.html#post892786

[MikeMyers]

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I've never really seen any advantage in actually taking multiple exposures in the camera. I would have thought that taking multiple images would have had the risk of slight movement of the tripod, maybe wind affecting foilage, people wandering into the image, plus the burden of physically having to carry the extra equipment. Maybe you can correct me if I'm missing something.

 

 

The people who make the software you're using, Photomatix, explain it this way in their support files: HDR images in photography - About Dynamic Range, Tone Mapping and HDR Imaging for Photography

 

Big T - thanks. Now I know the dng problem isn't just something I'm doing wrong. The guys who make Photomatix say that it's better to use 'raw' files, so maybe they need to find out what's broken when people try to use 'dng'. ...nice photo!

 

(HDR can be as subtle or as stand-out-from-the-page as you want. I probably enjoy it for a similar reason as why I enjoy IR photography so much - it's just a way of seeing things differently. Done the way you did it, it just makes up for the limited dynamic range of the camera, and comes closer to matching what the human eye can see - but we're not used to seeing all that much detail in a photograph. IMHO.)

[MikeMyers]

I find HDR images generate a strong feeling of dislike inside. It’s uncontrollable and comes from deep within – it’s a passionate dislike of the end result. Think I should go and speak to a quack?

 

The first time someone showed me an HDR print, I told him I didn't think it was even a photograph, but must have been something that was created in Photoshop. I didn't like it at all - it made me feel "uneasy", sort of the way I feel when a photo is tilted just a tiny amount because the camera wasn't held level. In my case I didn't know why I disliked the image so much, but there was just something ....well, annoying. Something in me was realizing there was something "wrong", but I couldn't figure out exactly what that was. We had to go to the place where the photo was made, before I would accept that somehow it was a "real" photo. Even then it took several minutes before I accepted that.

 

Since then, and since I got involved in doing HDR, I try to do things one of two ways. Either I keep the results very subtle, so the end result looks like a real photo, but with more detail in areas that otherwise go all light or dark..........or I make it very obvious that it's not a real photograph (as in my sample up above).

 

I'm not sure if I have the same feelings you describe, but for me it's the HDR photo that has too much HDR effect to be "real", but not enough HDR effect to be obviously art, not a photo........that bothers me.

 

(I predict the Leica M20 in six or seven years will have an HDR sensor built in, and there will be a menu selection to determine how much dynamic range you want the image to capture... There is no reason to think that sensors in the future won't be able to capture far more detail in the shadows and highlights, simultaneously.)

[SJP]

I think big T's HDR image is one of the first I have seen that is more or less acceptable to me - but I tend to agree with DarthVader. Mike I really do not see the point with your HDR picture ... I am pretty sure that (one of ) the originals are a much more pleasing image. But if you enjoy making HDRs fine with me.

[Big T]

I think big T's HDR image is one of the first I have seen that is more or less acceptable to me - but I tend to agree with DarthVader. Mike I really do not see the point with your HDR picture ... I am pretty sure that (one of ) the originals are a much more pleasing image. But if you enjoy making HDRs fine with me.

 

HDR is such a diverse process that no two people will process the same set of images the same way and it's great.

 

I personally like the more subtle approach but like looking at any HDR pics.

 

Here is another of my HDR process preference.

 

[Big T]

Oooohhhhh and here is the original DNG converted to JPG pic of the HDR above as taken.....

 

Shows the subtle differences that HDR can provide...

 

[MikeMyers]

With HDR photos like yours (not mine) I realize that the camera captures what's really there, which people don't really see. I like the effect very much.

 

Sometimes I get (too) carried away with the special effects, but that's because i like playing with images sometimes.

 

The two things I like most about HDR images are what it does to shadow detail, and to something like the sky. By looking at the individual images that the HDR is made from, I know the detail that's shown in the final image is real - but it's, well, unreal to see it all in a single photo.

 

 

 

I keep thinking there should be some way to do what lanetomlane talked about. If all that data really is captured in a dng file, there should be some way to retrieve both the highlight and the shadow detail from the file. I think I'll try to do what lanetomlane does, just to see if I'm on the right track.

[k-hawinkler]

Trevor,

 

I have no experience with making HDRs. Looking at HDRs, I seem to prefer the naturally looking ones. In your HDR above I like particularly the green bushes and long grass in the foreground. The sky looks a tad dramatic to me. I am sure you obtained the look you prefer. Here is my question, does the software you use have the flexibility to maintain the beach/foreground scene while toning down a little the pretty dark sky? How would one do that?

 

Thanks, K-H.

[MikeMyers]

I prefer to make the multi-images in the computer rather than camera.

 

I already posted where the people at Photomatix aren't very enthusiastic about this, but after a bit of searching, I found a page with several examples:

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/forums/thread420.htm

I tried this out, feeding a single dng image into Photomatix, and it processed the image just fine. The results were not as good as I've gotten with multiple images, but at least Photomatix does know how to get all that data out of a dng file.

[Big T]

Trevor,

I have no experience with making HDRs. Looking at HDRs, I seem to prefer the naturally looking ones. In your HDR above I like particularly the green bushes and long grass in the foreground. The sky looks a tad dramatic to me. I am sure you obtained the look you prefer. Here is my question, does the software you use have the flexibility to maintain the beach/foreground scene while toning down a little the pretty dark sky? How would one do that?

Thanks, K-H.

 

K-H

Here is the generated HDR from "Photomatix Pro" pretty much as generated from the 3 bracketed pics.

Played with the "Colour Saturation" and "Luminosity" a little to get this result.

This is the beauty of Photomatix Pro. Lots of settings to play with and set up your own work flow.

Trevor

 

[k-hawinkler]

Trevor,

 

Many thanks. This one looks great to me, very natural, my favorite.

I will get "Photomatix Pro" and play around with it.

 

Thanks again, K-H.

[Big T]

No worries K-H.

 

I usually take 3-4 bracketed pics for processing.

 

I set the ISO, focus and aperture (f5.6 & above) for all shots and change the shutter speed one full stop (2 clicks) between pics on the M8.2.

 

And 90% of my pics are hand held. I just use a point in the pic and line it up with the viewfinder frame lines.

 

Then in Photomatix Pro I set the "Align source images" to "By matching features". This does a great job of lining up the pics and adjusting for the slight handheld shake.

 

Good luck and have fun experimenting....

 

Trevor

[j. borger]

Oooohhhhh and here is the original DNG converted to JPG pic of the HDR above as taken.....

 

Shows the subtle differences that HDR can provide...

 

 

Good to see the original. And as i expected: I prefer the original by a Mile!

Just wondering why people like to fiddle with software to let a picture look as digital and unnatural as possible

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[k-hawinkler]

Trevor,

 

Thanks. What's your take on the point made in post #2 above?

 

K-H.

[Big T]

Trevor,

Thanks. What's your take on the point made in post #2 above?

K-H.

 

MMmmmm interesting. Have never tried it but will give it a go.

 

I use Capture One Pro 5 so shall give it a go with one of the beach images and do a comparison to the HDR......