k-hawinkler Posted March 5, 2011 Share #221 Posted March 5, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) zatklob, I have not as yet used a 600mm follow-focus lens for babies, kitty-cats or cutesey pootsy family stuff….but you have given me an idea! Hi Washington, Pretty funny. I have a Telyt 400/6.8. With extension tube, works very well for macros. You might want to give it a try too. Best, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Hi k-hawinkler, Take a look here Video mode on future M . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jaybob Posted March 5, 2011 Share #222 Posted March 5, 2011 As far as some member's of the Leica forum ridiculing a fellow photgrapher for doing is job is not very cool if ask me. Some poeple got got no class. No disrespect was intended, I understand the fact this if you want the highest quality video from a DSLR, you need to do some modification and kit yourself up both for audio and steadyness. I think it takes a remarkable amount of skill, skill I don't possess, and skill that I admire when I see it. Jay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 5, 2011 Share #223 Posted March 5, 2011 I think a video M might be really something. I'm planning to make a killing on a new product for it when it finally comes out. I am going to make and market a line of M10 mounting rails for it that should hit a huge demographic. I'm going to call my line of M10 mounts, "Walker Mounts." I'll design them to mount on all sizes of elderly walkers. I'll have walking-cane mounts, and wheelchair mounts, too. This is going to be bigger than the iPhone. Great ideas. Don't forget a wheelchair dolly system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted March 5, 2011 Share #224 Posted March 5, 2011 I think that there are more factors and influences than particular features being present or absent. Customers do not buy cameras solely on those criteria. Leica customers especially. One specific example that comes to mind (as told by Leica Camera) is that the more expensive lens models (ie. the modern aspherical designs) outsell the Summarits by more than two to one. Why do some photographers (including our sub-set) spend more on cameras and lenses that nominally do less? My responses to the OP's original questions are: Is a future M likely to have a video mode? Maybe, Stefan Daniel has hinted that he may not be adverse to LiveView. If Leica Camera can source suitable sensor and electronics and the current quality is at least maintained and it can be adequately powered and cooled while still within the current form factor and utilise all the the current lenses. The risk is that it may alienate some of their traditional customer base in the attempt to appeal more to others. How would you feel about a video mode? No thank you. Most especially if it added size or interface complication that interfered with the camera's primary function and handling. A change to the RF and finder as is would be particularly unwelcome. A change affecting lens compatibility would be disastrous. I also prefer to not pay more for features that I don't want, but I think that Leica M customers are ultimately not as price sensitive. Would you use it if the feature was there? No. If I want to record video as an amateur (or if I had a professional need) I would prefer to use a more suitable tool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
!Nomad64 Posted March 5, 2011 Share #225 Posted March 5, 2011 Is a future M likely to have a video mode? Maybe, Stefan Daniel has hinted that he may not be adverse to LiveView. If Leica Camera can source suitable sensor and electronics and the current quality is at least maintained and it can be adequately powered and cooled while still within the current form factor and utilise all the the current lenses. The risk is that it may alienate some of their traditional customer base in the attempt to appeal more to others. If they ever revived the R-system even in an MFT incarnation designed by Mrs. Elizabeth Clark and included liveview, video capture, MP3 reader, Ken Rockwell, GPS, bluetooth and a frying pan they'd meet the expectations of at least three groups of Leica users, the traditionalists that are happy with the M as is, the R users and supporters and all those who want the modern features Cheers, Bruno Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor AIS Posted March 6, 2011 Share #226 Posted March 6, 2011 No worries Jay I really wasnt directing my comment to you. One thing that really started to become apparent to me when I was shooting with the 5D2 is that to get everything could out of the system you needed lots of stuff. And at that time I wasnt prepared to put the money into getting the proper rail and microphones ...OO Perhaps that is why I felt like sticking up for the poor bastard in the photo. If you think anyone really wants to haul all that "stuff" around me thinks your wrong. The fact is if you want to get the most out of the system than all the accsessories are part of the deal. Now saying that I still say that a M10 with HD Video and full manual control could be just the ticket for the next to entice a whole new generation of Leica M users. I asked my 15 year old if he would like a camera like the Leica M3 with that would also shoot video and he reponded with a huge ear to ear grin. To me that is the next generation talking. And while some of the old timers might not like having video in the next generation of Leica M. You can't please everyone. As far as extra buttons it really only needs one more. And it can ignored if so desired. Gregory Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 6, 2011 Share #227 Posted March 6, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Still, I fail to see how one would get one of the most used and expressive cinematographic effects, a zoom-in, with a prime lens.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 6, 2011 Share #228 Posted March 6, 2011 ... And I fail to see how one would like to take a video handling a M body and looking into its VF,,, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted March 6, 2011 Share #229 Posted March 6, 2011 If you have 91 seconds to spare, check out what Mark Tucker does just "trying out" video on his (then) new Nikon D7000, while admitting he has "no clue" about video: https://marktucker.wordpress.com/2010/11/27/thanksgiving-video/ No heavy duty gear. Just the little camera in the hands of an artist. A little shaky, but that's expected for home video. I think it's expressive and wonderful. Since then, he's done a bunch of short videos (with sound) on his new blog, my day with. How would you feel about a video mode?No thank you. Most especially if it added size or interface complication that interfered with the camera's primary function and handling. A change to the RF and finder as is would be particularly unwelcome. A change affecting lens compatibility would be disastrous. I also prefer to not pay more for features that I don't want, but I think that Leica M customers are ultimately not as price sensitive. None of those negatives occurred in the Canon 5D's transition from video-less to video-capable. No added size or interface complication. Nothing to interfere with the camera's primary function and handling. Same lenses. Lower cost. I asked my 15 year old if he would like a camera like the Leica M3 with that would also shoot video and he reponded with a huge ear to ear grin. To me that is the next generation talking. And while some of the old timers might not like having video in the next generation of Leica M. You can't please everyone. As far as extra buttons it really only needs one more. And it can ignored if so desired. I agree! The next generation will look at video differently. As for extra buttons, the Canon 5D2 added none. The 7D added a video button, but it's quite handy, and can easily be disabled. Still, I fail to see how one would get one of the most used and expressive cinematographic effects, a zoom-in, with a prime lens.... Zooming is not all that expressive, IMO, and is often done badly/overused by amateur videographers as it's just easier to zoom than to carefully compose your shots. Some of the best movie-making is done entirely with prime lenses. Shooting with primes requires a more thoughtful approach, but Leica M photographers are used to that. ... And I fail to see how one would like to take a video handling a M body and looking into its VF,,, That is an interesting aspect of this hypothetical M. With a regular DSLR, one can't look through the viewfinder while shooting video. With a video-M, one could look through the viewfinder during video, or use the LCD as one does on a DSLR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor AIS Posted March 6, 2011 Share #230 Posted March 6, 2011 The fact that one could use the veiw finder with the M with Video would be a huge plus in my books.The more I thik about the better I like it. Zlatkob, Great little video link. thanks for that. Gregory Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 6, 2011 Share #231 Posted March 6, 2011 Video on the M cameras? I hope it will never happen. Let the M-system be what it was made to be: a no frills still camera of the highest quality and simplicity. Don't let the M stand for M-ateur. Buy a dedicated Panasonic AG-F100 video camera, mount your M-lenses on it and shoot away. You can afford it. If you don't want to spend the money to buy a dedicated video camera, use your D-Lux 5, or better yet, your i-phone. If you think Leica should focus on making the M-system video compatible, your films suck anyway. I'm sorry if I'm being harsh, but I am a cinematographer and feel strongly about this topic. Great still cameras do not make good video cameras, and if you are shooting a Leica, it means you demand the best. Don't clutter your M with functions it wasn't intended for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 6, 2011 Share #232 Posted March 6, 2011 For me it would be simple. If the M10 had video I would not buy it. I dislike bastard products. And I know I am not alone. I cannot understand why people who want this feature don't simply buy any DSLR that has it, or if they are looking for video with a small form factor buy one of the many small and excellent video cameras. They take stills as well - and the marvelous Leica lenses? How are you even going to see the quality? On your TV screen? How does that compare to a print? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 6, 2011 Share #233 Posted March 6, 2011 Video on the M cameras? I hope it will never happen. Let the M-system be what it was made to be: a no frills still camera of the highest quality and simplicity. Don't let the M stand for M-ateur. Buy a dedicated Panasonic AG-F100 video camera, mount your M-lenses on it and shoot away. You can afford it. If you don't want to spend the money to buy a dedicated video camera, use your D-Lux 5, or better yet, your i-phone. If you think Leica should focus on making the M-system video compatible, your films suck anyway. I'm sorry if I'm being harsh, but I am a cinematographer and feel strongly about this topic. Great still cameras do not make good video cameras, and if you are shooting a Leica, it means you demand the best. Don't clutter your M with functions it wasn't intended for. Wait a minute! You want us to use a an iPhone or D-Lux 5? You have no idea how good FF sensors are. They beat the heck out of those you mention. They even rival the small sensors found in most if not all video gear - they can't compete with FF. You have to spend over 100k to get anything close. And, right now the Canon 5DII is outputting video indistinguishable from the $250,000 Sony Cine Alta F35. Those guys you see at the Oscars using those HD camera's you see have each spent 100k for their cameras and they don't even have lenses that are as good as the Leica glass. They can't create DOF like the Leica glass because of the small sensor size. Now, you suggest people go get a Panasonic AG-F100 video camera. Come on, that wouldn't even be in the ballpark with the FF sensor and good glass... not even a prayer of coming close. I'm not sure if you guys get how good FF sensors are for cine. Once the 5DII gets RAW video output, it is going to be a game over deal. Why wouldn't you want that? Also, Hollywood is about to change. No longer do film makers have to have expensive gear to make a movie. They can use simple and cheap gear ($2,699) and compete with big studios and make a creative product instead of all of the studio bull shit we have to swallow now, like all of these remakes of comic books... it's crap! And, they can distribute on the web. This is changing everything. M10 with a Leica anamorphic lens would be killer. I'm telling you, it will turn into a cult. And, if you don't want it, just don't use it that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 6, 2011 Share #234 Posted March 6, 2011 Also, Hollywood is about to change. No longer do film makers have to have expensive gear to make a movie. They can use simple and cheap gear ($2,699) and compete with big studios and make a creative product instead of all of the studio bull shit we have to swallow now like remake of all of these comic book crap! And, they can distribute on the web. This is changing everything. So the gear is there already - why should anyone buy the the quirky and expensive Leica M for the purpose then except a few Leica geeks? The same argument holds - it would not gain any significant number of buyers and it would lose quite a large part of the core customer base. Certainly many of the traditionalists in Europe and Asia. I doubt that the Australian and part of the USA market can keep the system afloat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 6, 2011 Share #235 Posted March 6, 2011 So the gear is there already - why should anyone buy the the quirky and expensive Leica M for the purpose then except a few Leica geeks? The same argument holds - it would not gain any significant number of buyers and it would lose quite a large part of the core customer base. Certainly many of the traditionalists in Europe and Asia. I doubt that the Australian and part of the USA market can keep the system afloat. First off, the Leica is not quirky, it is simple and that would be a plus. Yes, the gear is already there and that is the proof of the viability of the concept of FF cameras as impressive video recorders. Next, you have no idea if it would gain a significant number of buyers or if it would lose a large part of the core. Can you quote me some source or are you just talking through your hat? Also, Leica is ahead of Canon in lens technology and especially in cine lenses. Jappv, you wouldn't even know it was there. You have a PAS. You mean to tell me that the video ability gets in your way and in anyway diminishes your experience? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 6, 2011 Share #236 Posted March 6, 2011 No - I am not talking through my hat - just adding up the reactions in this forum. Only few are positive, many negative. Most positive ones are transatlantic. We can be sure that Leica marketing has a pretty shrewd idea of the undercurrents and Leica will decide accordingly, when video on an M becomes technically possible. If I were Leica and wanted to get into video, I would market an Leicina-2 with a dedicated zoom lens and the option to use M lenses. About the possibility to switch it off, read Bill's posts about feature bloat. I totally agree with him. And to most of the world, I can assure you, a Leica M is quirky, it is just us that are crazy enough to appreciate it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
denoir Posted March 6, 2011 Share #237 Posted March 6, 2011 For me it would be simple. If the M10 had video I would not buy it. I dislike bastard products. You mean like a camera that can shoot both RAW and JPG? An M10 could have video without you ever having to notice it. If the control through the software and they don't mess up the streamlined M interface by adding a lot of buttons etc, how exactly is it going impact you negatively? They take stills as well - and the marvelous Leica lenses? How are you even going to see the quality? On your TV screen? How does that compare to a print? Do you seriously mean to say that you can't see the difference between shots taken with a Noctilux and say a Canon 50/1.8 unless you make a print? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 6, 2011 Share #238 Posted March 6, 2011 The differences on screen jpgs of 960 or 1024 wide are minimal compared to those in print. Or are you going to watch your videos at 100% crop? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 6, 2011 Share #239 Posted March 6, 2011 Ok, thanks for not pounding me for the talking through your hat comment. Here is the deal, for me. Live view is coming to the M at some point. That means video is just a menu and/or a button away. So what is the big deal? Bill claims it will bloat the M. I hold him at his pedantic and lovable self to mean that the M will become bigger or expanded in some way. But, I don't buy it. The M will be the same size and if he means the menu system - it will not expand beyond a folder choice. If, you don't want it, don't go looking for it. The first logical step for Leica is to add it to the M10 and provide RAW video output and a few cine anamorphic M-lenses and it would kill the Canon. Ok, it would provide strong competition to the Canon. The video on my 5DII was the only thing that made me think about keeping it after I got the M9. It really is that cool. Your Leica glass is like double magic if you could see it in video on your flat screen. It is jaw dropping awesome. What is not to like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor AIS Posted March 6, 2011 Share #240 Posted March 6, 2011 First off there not "film" they would be video's. Sorry film is shoot in... wait for it ... film:p. As far as the bastard product because of a video funtion that is funny coming from someone who owns a M8. I mean come on Jaapv:rolleyes:. As as far the cini guy who as proclaimed people film's would suck:confused:, Sound about right coming from a guy who tell people who want to use a full frame HD video with lenes like the Noctilux and the 12 mm ASPH on the wide end to use I I-phone? Get serious. I agree with Rick the limited depth of feild poissibliityes with Leica fast sharp glass would be a killer combo. 20 1.4, 24 1.4, 35 1.4, 50 1.0 , 50 .95,...OO Especially if Leica allows one to shoot raw footage with full manual control with the M10. To me that would be the key. And being a M the veiwfinder would would be far more familir and usefull in many situations than the current meathod of using the chimp sceen with the DSLR . However, because of patch, being able to focus away from the center would mean having to use the Chimp screen like the Canon 5D2 and the D3s. Unless you used the distance scales on the lens and pulled focus. Just to give you an idea of the limited depth of feild possible with lens like the 50 1.0 here are some shots taken with the Canon 5D2 and the 50 1.0. I have some video of these as well but havnt up loaded them yet. Anyways try to this look with an I phone or anything else but a 50 1.0 . What excites me is the possibilities of the unique signature of my Leica 50 1.0 Noctilux on full frame video. The Leica M10 with full HD, would be just the ticket. http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Rural/IMG7082/652258017_uNiEw-X2-4.jpg http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Rural/AAC1325/656223310_onNFA-X2-4.jpg http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Rural/IMG7150/652266314_nnmTs-X2-3.jpg http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Rural/IMG8987/661768057_pHLzq-X2-4.jpg http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Rural/IMG8421/660949809_G3UiW-X2-3.jpg http://rogaltacdesign.smugmug.com/Other/Rural/IMG8380/660946907_N2PKv-X2-4.jpg All taken with the canon 5D2 and the 50 1.0, some with a 72 polarizer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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