63strat Posted March 21, 2010 Share #1 Posted March 21, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I just picked up a Leica SF58 Flash for my M8.2 and 50mm Summilux. I'd like to use it for subtle fill-in, but everything I've tried so far results in a strong flash, not a fill-in. I'm using it TTL, and have tried Aperture priority and manual with the M8.2. For an indoor low light situation, shouldn't I be able to set the lens to 1.4, ISO to 320, and just get a tad of fill-in? Maybe I'm not understanding how to do this. Any help would be appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 21, 2010 Posted March 21, 2010 Hi 63strat, Take a look here SF58 and M8.2. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
brill64 Posted March 21, 2010 Share #2 Posted March 21, 2010 remember that your summilux at 1.4 is still a manual lens and not transmitting that aperture to the camera or flash. in ttl or auto, your sf58 will control output but you have to tell it if you want less exposure and only a little blip of fill. it does what it's told, you still have to manually adjust output of your sf58 but with a little trial and error of skill you can get what you want every time.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted March 21, 2010 Share #3 Posted March 21, 2010 I believe that the manual says the 'minimum' working distance is 1/10 of the stated range when you program the working aperture into the flash. At f1.4, that isn't very close (5.3m @ 320iso and 50mm 'zoom' according to my SF-58), you might be so close that the flash is unable to reduce output sufficiently. I think you may be better off just programming the power in manually. I tried using mine in TTL mode under similar circumstances with a -ve EV dialled in and it really didn't work well at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 21, 2010 Share #4 Posted March 21, 2010 I agree with the others that you are most probably seeing the limitation of the TTL mode. In this mode the flash will always be limited to how quickly the electronics between camera and flash can work to tell the flash to 'stop'. It doesn't surprise me that the minimum output in TTL mode is greater (more light) than is obtainable in manual mode. In the latter mode, the output can (I think) be reduced as low as 1/256 of the full output (or 8 stops). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted March 21, 2010 Share #5 Posted March 21, 2010 What you are seeing is Leica's total lack of interest in flash. At least the SF58 manual (available on line) recognizes the existence of the M8/M8.2; no mention of the M9. The SF24 manual is not available on line as far as I can tell; it doesn't mention either the M8 or M9. I haven't read the M9 manual on flash, but the M8 manual is useless too in regards to flash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted March 21, 2010 Share #6 Posted March 21, 2010 What you are seeing is Leica's total lack of interest in flash. At least the SF58 manual (available on line) recognizes the existence of the M8/M8.2; no mention of the M9. The SF24 manual is not available on line as far as I can tell; it doesn't mention either the M8 or M9. I haven't read the M9 manual on flash, but the M8 manual is useless too in regards to flash. ...and the flash manuals does not mention any of the future models, too. Are you kidding? Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted March 21, 2010 Share #7 Posted March 21, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I haven't used the SF-58, but regularly use the SF-24D in TTL with my M8.2. One of my lessons learned is that I must do a half press of the shutter and pause long enough to let the SF-24D perform its pre-flash. If I forget and just do a full press I typically get full output and overexposure, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 21, 2010 Share #8 Posted March 21, 2010 63Strat, I'm not sure but I think in TTL you still have to tell the flash which power range setting to use. I think you do this by picking an f-stop for the flash that is in a range of distance of what you want to shoot, even in TTL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photon42 Posted March 21, 2010 Share #9 Posted March 21, 2010 I just picked up a Leica SF58 Flash for my M8.2 and 50mm Summilux. I'd like to use it for subtle fill-in, but everything I've tried so far results in a strong flash, not a fill-in. I'm using it TTL, and have tried Aperture priority and manual with the M8.2. For an indoor low light situation, shouldn't I be able to set the lens to 1.4, ISO to 320, and just get a tad of fill-in? Maybe I'm not understanding how to do this. Any help would be appreciated. I don't have to flash, but it should be possible. The shutter speed should not be to high in order to achieve what you want. Did you check the corresponding chapter in the manual (Automatic TTL fill-in flash mode)? Regards Ivo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecgold Posted March 21, 2010 Share #10 Posted March 21, 2010 When you put it in ttl and set your aperture to 4 (like it says in the display of the 58) and it works like a dream. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
63strat Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share #11 Posted March 22, 2010 I haven't used the SF-58, but regularly use the SF-24D in TTL with my M8.2. One of my lessons learned is that I must do a half press of the shutter and pause long enough to let the SF-24D perform its pre-flash. If I forget and just do a full press I typically get full output and overexposure, I tried this but the light output is still too much, thx. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
63strat Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share #12 Posted March 22, 2010 I don't have to flash, but it should be possible. The shutter speed should not be to high in order to achieve what you want. Did you check the corresponding chapter in the manual (Automatic TTL fill-in flash mode)? Regards Ivo Right, I want to work with the lens more or less wide open. I've read the manual over an over, but still haven't been able to nail it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
63strat Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share #13 Posted March 22, 2010 When you put it in ttl and set your aperture to 4 (like it says in the display of the 58) and it works like a dream. That's interesting, thanks. I'd hate to be limited to 4 just to get a proper fill-in though. Will experiment with this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
63strat Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share #14 Posted March 22, 2010 63Strat, I'm not sure but I think in TTL you still have to tell the flash which power range setting to use. I think you do this by picking an f-stop for the flash that is in a range of distance of what you want to shoot, even in TTL. Hmmm...I don't see where you can pick an F stop in TTL mode. If it has to be manual, then there was no point in getting this huge Leica-brand flash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted March 22, 2010 Share #15 Posted March 22, 2010 Hmmm...I don't see where you can pick an F stop in TTL mode. If it has to be manual, then there was no point in getting this huge Leica-brand flash. You can choose an f-stop by pressing the 'set' button until the f-stop option cycles into view, then use the +/- keys to alter it. I don't think this will help you however - as the only possible reason to set the f-stop to f4 (instead of 1.4) in TTL mode would be to encourage the flash to pump out more light. Have you tried dialling in -ve EV (say 2 stops)? I recall trying this myself without much success - but that may have been due to other factors. That was how I assumed one would reduce the flash output in TTL mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 22, 2010 Share #16 Posted March 22, 2010 Hmmm...I don't see where you can pick an F stop in TTL mode. If it has to be manual, then there was no point in getting this huge Leica-brand flash. Hit the set button twice and choose the distance (power) for the flash by choosing the f-stop by using the "+" and "-" buttons. Seems to work fine for me. I have to say that I really like this flash and have found that Leica did a good job with this flash and does care about flash photography. The bounce flash capabilities of this flash are excellent as well. Not sure what you mean about, "if it has to be manual, then there is no point in getting this huge Leica-brand flash." TTL works really well with this flash. It is the only way you are going to get TTL unless you get the 24. I know the manual is not written well in English anyway, but the flash does work in TTL quite well. Don't give up. TTL does work fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 22, 2010 Share #17 Posted March 22, 2010 Right, I want to work with the lens more or less wide open. I've read the manual over an over, but still haven't been able to nail it. As I've already stated, the flash has a more limited range of output in TTL than it does in manual mode. To get around this limitation you could try adding a 3 stop ND filter to the lens to give it an effective aperture of F4 or so but this will mean using a much slower shutter speed to maintain the same ambient exposure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted March 22, 2010 Share #18 Posted March 22, 2010 As I've already stated, the flash has a more limited range of output in TTL than it does in manual mode. To get around this limitation you could try adding a 3 stop ND filter to the lens to give it an effective aperture of F4 or so but this will mean using a much slower shutter speed to maintain the same ambient exposure. Or maybe put a 3 stop ND foil over the flash? Actually, you could probably just use a neutral grey bounce card and drop 3 stops of power - I might try that out myself this evening. I often want to shoot at f1.4 and 2500iso, but add in a tiny amount of flash to bump the foreground contrast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 23, 2010 Share #19 Posted March 23, 2010 Or maybe put a 3 stop ND foil over the flash? Actually, you could probably just use a neutral grey bounce card and drop 3 stops of power Yes, I thought about that but wondered if the TTL would just try and compensate. I guess it depends just how limited the SF58 is in that mode in terms of lower output 'sensitivity'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markgay Posted March 23, 2010 Share #20 Posted March 23, 2010 You are up against the advantages of a manual camera. I don't use flash much now but when I did I had a chart on a square of paper glued to the flash unit. This took the guide number of the flash, the subject distance and the lens aperture and made a simple cheat sheet. I found a good refresher on this site Four Flash Photography Basics we must know Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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