GF1 v M8

[brill64]

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i'm sorry, i just don't get the whole micro 4/3 thing. if it's a battery issue just carry more batteries. that bowl of noodles looks tempting though..

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[carbon_dragon]

I see the 4/3rds cameras in the same way as I saw the original Olympus Pens. They were delightful little cameras but in the end, half frame wasn't good enough quality. And they weren't THAT much smaller than 35mm cameras.

 

Today, the EP-1/2 and the Panasonic GF-1 seem only marginally smaller than an M8 and that 2x crop factor is too much for me.

[Vern Dewit]

As a long time m4/3 and 4/3 user and a new M8.2 user I'm not sure how you can really compare these two cameras very effectively. Jim Radcliffe is an awesome photographer but he (like me) is constantly on the prowl for smaller and lighter cameras that produce good results in various situations. The reality is that an M8 and a GF1 (or in my case the GH1) are used for very different purposes, just like a Nikon D3S is used for different purposes than an M8.

 

Of course these usages overlap which is where the confusion over what camera does a better job comes from. I'm sure nobody would argue that the M8 does a better job of shooting indoor sports than the D3S and on the flip side nobody would argue that the D3S is a more discrete street shooter than the M8!

 

I realized a long time ago that I 'need' two cameras to handle my needs and I suspect that many others could benefit from this strategy as well. Unfortunately one system is not good for everything and unless you only do one type of photography (i.e. indoor sports) you will find yourself limited in some way by your equipment. Buying into more than one system can be expensive but effective and the m4/3 market segment is cheaper than some of the others, thank goodness.

 

My m4/3 camera does landscapes and HD video very well. Because of the small sensor I only have to use apertures of f/5.6-f/8 to get good DOF without worrying about diffraction and because the camera is so small and light I can carry it up and down mountains without exhausting myself with a 28-280mm equivalent lens mounted on it.

 

The other half of my photography is basically a form of photojournalism where the main story is my life and the people I'm sharing it with. Right now that consists of kids, family and travel. I've tried all the major FF cameras from the Sony A900 to the Canon 5D to the Nikon D3 and all of these were simply too big and heavy for me to lug around my life. I'm hoping to find solace in the M8 - so far it looks very promising!

 

If I start shooting indoor sports I'm sure I'll change my mind again

[markgay]

I also use both the GF1 and M8, and they are very different: the M4/3 sensor is much less capable of enlargement.

 

In use, the two cameras sort of complement each other, though not fully because they operate quite differently.

 

The GF1 can focus closer, faster. Yes, unlike a zoom lens, AF is actually really useful and bloody quick with a f/1.7 prime. And none of the hassle I get with some of my fast Leica lenses and their interaction with the rangefinder at close distatance.

 

But at the end of the day, I'll take the M's for their aperture control ring, DoF scales, shutter speed dial, even before you consider the bigger sensor and the lenses.

 

The GF1, like the GH1, with their optics are a good deal in price terms but that can't be confused with sensor size. Bulk it up a bit, put an APS sensor inside and that would be a very different matter.

 

Mark

Money Circus

[stunsworth]

I'm picking up a GF1 + 20mm tomorrow morning from a local dealer. Seems a good price - £619 less the £50 Panasonic cash back, so a nett price of £570 or so.

 

I was thinking of getting an adaptor for my M lenses. Looking at eBay the Chinese knock offs are around the £22 mark. Does anyone have any experience of these?

[Nick De Marco]

Steve I bought a knock off M adapter and it worked unless you wanted infinity focus. Which meant it was pretty useless really. I then bought the Voigtlander adapted, which cost about £49 on ebay, and has worked perfectly ever since. It ends up worth the extra money, especially as you will probably end up buying it anyway...

 

Enjoy the GF1 and 20 Panny - I still am

 

Nick

[johnalex141r]

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Frankly I'm more interested in how it's going with film. (Once again contemplating an M6)

 

Funnily enough, my M8 never made it to Leica NJ for repair - I have been in essence "M8"-less since December.

 

So, what am I shooting? An Olympus 35RC that I got for free, and my Fujica GS645 cameras, and loving it. I do like the M8, and it will get repaired once it is dropped off at the local leica dealer (2 hours drive each way) and it is fixed by Leica NJ. It probably won't get dropped off for a few weeks yet, and who knows how long it will be away for service.

 

B&W film is fun - I had forgotten how much fun & hassle film is! The local stores all carry B&W film, so supplies are not a problem.

 

I, too, keep looking at Leica film cameras, and the Bessas... hmmm.... :-)

 

JohnS.

[stunsworth]

Steve I bought a knock off M adapter and it worked unless you wanted infinity focus.

 

Well I ordered a Chinese one from eBay. It was only £22 incl p&p, so if it doesn't work well I haven't lost much - and if it does work well I've saved a lot.

 

The lens doesn't have Leica on the front so I can't post anything here, but there's an f1.7 photograph here...

 

_1000013-statue

 

I'm very impressed so far. I finally have a p&s camera that performs in a similar manner to a larger camera.

[biglouis]

Likewise, I can't post non-Leica GF1 photographs although I do now own the Panasonic Leica DG Macro Elmarit 45 so I have posted those.

 

Some good shots of various Leica and other cameras I took with my 20/1.7 yesterday are at my flickr stream in the GF1 folder.

 

This is a very nice camera and holds up well at higher iso, although I wouldn't want to print my iso1600 shots larger than A4.

 

LouisB

[gwelland]

It is really interesting how people perceive cameras and photo quality differently.

 

I had a GF1 but I was very disappointed with it and sold it only a few weeks after purchase. The IQ was OK, but I found it needed a lot of PP to get any "life" to the pictures. The small sensor was an issue as well - getting narrow DOF becomes a lot harder.

 

I am surprised that the OP prefers it to an M8. While not an M8 owner, I am really impressed by the picture quality from M8 images on this forum - way, way better than the GF1 in my opinion.

 

Still, each to their own. Enjoy your photography.

 

Ditto.

 

I found the m4/3rds cameras produced very 'digital' images that didn't have anything like the same character of the Leica shots from my M8 at the time. I experimented with using Leica glass with the GF-1 and it didn't work out for me. I also used the 7-14 & 20/1.7 Panasonic lenses and they were interesting in themselves but needed the corrections of the raw converter to look ok.

 

I tired quickly of the system and sold it. No regrets. There are legions of pro-m4/3rds fans who are very happy with the system and I'm happy for them ... it just wasn't for me.

[cbretteville]

I'm very impressed so far. I finally have a p&s camera that performs in a similar manner to a larger camera.

 

Same as my experience. I did get a Pana M-m4/3 adapter and have used it some, but mostly I just use the Panasonic lenses. Don't really see a problem with lifeless images and when shooting the kids in action my hit rate is a lot better than with my Ms. Different tools for different jobs.

 

Carl

[lct]

Tempting indeed. Can you use wide M primes on your 4/3?

[stunsworth]

LCT, yes with an adaptor - though reports indicate that wider lenses don't work as well as longer ones.

 

The adaptors vary in price from 22 GBP - Chinese on eBay - to 240 GBP - Panasonic, with a Voigtlander one about halfway between those two. Mine is one its way from China, so until it arrives I'm not able to verify how good or bad it is.

[lct]

Thank you Steve. Did you try a wide M in person on your Pany? The (possible) lack of microlenses makes me wonder if there are vignetting problems with such combos.

[stunsworth]

LCT, I don't have the adaptor yet so I can't comment. I rember Mark Norton saying that the wide angles didn't perform very well towards the edge of the frame, but I think it was more a problem of definition than vignetting.

[lct]

OK thanks. Hope you will post some pics when you get an adapter.

[cbretteville]

LCT,

I'll see if I can't get some shots done tomorrow with my CV12 and 18mm Super Elmar on the GF1.

Carl

[lct]

Much kind of you Carl thanks.

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[cbretteville]

Well, I did grab some shots this morning using the GF1 and the 18mm SE and CV12. Looking at the shots they're quite usable. But if you pixel peep they fall apart. Results on axis are good, but the edges suffer, both contrast and sharpness is reduced a lot.

 

Using M glass on a GF1 is certainly doable. I do wish the camera detected my focusing and popped up the focusing aid as that is essential to nail it. As it is you have to engage it manually by pressing the scroll wheel and that is slightly awkward. It would probably be easier with practice. Based on my experience so far I'll be using the longer lenses like 35 and 50 lux'es more than the really wides. But mostly I'll be using the m4/3 glass, the 20/1.7 is a nice lens and the zooms aren't half bad price considering.

 

I wanted to use a shot of the wall below taken with the 18mm, but I've miss focused it, so this will have to do. Non the less I do see the same effect in the shots I took this morning with the 18mm. I should have taken the same shots with my M8 for comparison, but in the stress of getting stuff done I didn't think that far.

 

Here is an example, GF1, Panasonic m4/3-M adapter + Leitz LTM-M adapter, CV12 at f8. I used LR 2.6 to convert the shot to a PSD and did the rest in CS4. No post processing at all apart from the what is necessary to turn the images into JPGs

 

Full frame:

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100% crop in the center

 

100% crop from the upper left corner

 

100% crop from the lower right corner

 

Carl

[cbretteville]

Just had a look at some comparable M8/18mm shots in my LR catalogue and there is no loss of sharpness within the part of the image circle used by the 4/3 sensor.

Carl