lars_bergquist Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share #41 Posted March 17, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) [ ... ] Red edges? Well I have just returned from shooting 6000 images in Antarctica and environs and I must confess I have not been troubled by red edges, across all lenses. I will now go and look more closely. Maybe they are there! The point is, they aren't spoiling anything. Expecting perfection because of the price is not realistic. Work that one out. It's not too difficult. Photography is a visual art. If you cannot see it with the old v.1 eyeball, you can't see it. If you have to use measurements in Photoshop to 'see' it, you don't see it. And even if you do see it, it bothers you only if you decide it should bother you. YOU decide. I can live with something like 1.5% barrel distortion, provided that the curve (image height v. displacement) has a consistent shape. My tolerance for pincushion distortion is about half this. But those are MY values. I agree that Leica should (a) tell us what they know about the phenomenon, ( tell us about the limits of correction, and © tell us what they are doing about it. In other words, tell us. The longer you keep mum, the direr -- and probably more unfounded -- people's suspicions will get. The old unwashed man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 17, 2010 Posted March 17, 2010 Hi lars_bergquist, Take a look here A Sane Attitude to Rededge. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lars_bergquist Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share #42 Posted March 17, 2010 Using Cornerfix adds only a small step to the RAW workflow. I don't give a ... whether this is considered acceptable by users who have spent lots of money on a M9, as long as there is a sensible way for me to exploit the full capacity of my M equipment in the digital world. [ ... ] Yes, for people who run Windows. Us other blokes on divers heathen platforms, like Macintosh, do not have Cornerfix. And yes, ideally the thing should be fixed in camera, just like the colour shifts caused by the over-sensor IR filter are. The old unwashed man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 17, 2010 Share #43 Posted March 17, 2010 CornerFix runs on Mac OS X. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share #44 Posted March 17, 2010 CornerFix runs on Mac OS X. Thanks. I checked Sandy's site and got the impression it didn't. The old man who washed his mouth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 17, 2010 Share #45 Posted March 17, 2010 I have a feeling quite a number of Gnomes in Solms are hammering away at this problem. It should indeed be solved. For the time being, we'll have to live with it. There is obviously no easy solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share #46 Posted March 17, 2010 My own impression after some preliminary testing is that I can safely use my 25mm Biogon (coded as 24mm Elmarit ASPH) while my 18mm Distagon is for special purposes only for now (which it was before too; I bought it to have a 24mm f.o.v. on the M8). Fortunately, the 28mm Summicron ASPH seems to be on the safe side too. The old man washing his hands Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 17, 2010 Share #47 Posted March 17, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have a feeling quite a number of Gnomes in Solms are hammering away at this problem. It should indeed be solved. For the time being, we'll have to live with it. There is obviously no easy solution. I fear the Gnomes are hammering in Jena and some Snowwhite in Solms is gnawing at her fingernails in the meantime. Though I can only support Lars' appeal for Leica being outspoken on the topic. The description in the leaflet for the update made me think they didn't know what they are talking about. I thought the text was a fake until it appeared on the Leica website. If it's true that a reset of the camera's function improves the effect of the firmware to the better, they should at least tell this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share #48 Posted March 17, 2010 [ ... ] If it's true that a reset of the camera's function improves the effect of the firmware to the better, they should at least tell this. Agreed. I do hesitate to lose my beautiful user profiles, some with pre-set manual BWs, but If I hear that significant improvement follows, I will take the plunge. IS it significant? The old man drying his hands Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 17, 2010 Share #49 Posted March 17, 2010 ... IS it significant?... Look here (or better the links to the examples in the German forum). http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/119369-sane-attitude-rededge-2.html#post1268216 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted March 17, 2010 Share #50 Posted March 17, 2010 Hmm - I had a long additional response ready to go and then saw the new info regarding a camera reset after changing the firmware. Did it. First impressions - maybe an improvement in red edges with my 21 preASPH - needs some additional shooting to see just how big an improvement. Certainly the lower vignetting correction at higher ISOs suddenly kicked in more noticeably after the reset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted March 17, 2010 Share #51 Posted March 17, 2010 I have a feeling quite a number of Gnomes in Solms are hammering away at this problem. It should indeed be solved. For the time being, we'll have to live with it. There is obviously no easy solution. There are those latter day Nibelungen again Rightly so, withe those lenses worth (Rhein-)gold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 17, 2010 Share #52 Posted March 17, 2010 ... Note that I have not issued one single fatwa, either against any single lens or against Leica Camera. This is because every man Jack or woman Jane of you will have to do these tests, and draw your own conclusions. I am doing them myself. And remember, it is the practical tests that are decisive. ... Strange - or is it typical - that Lars made a very practical proposal - but all what showed up until now was more words but not tests. So then I switched over to Firmware 2.004 in the old-fashioned M8 for a moment, to try what we could have seen in the past. (Sorry, I have no M9 and I am on no lists; just hoping that there could be some enlightenment): M8, 3,8/18 Super Elmar, Leica-UV/IR-Filter, lens detection on with UV/IR, f/5.6, EV +1, fluorescent lamp light, WB "auto", no changes in C1 besides processing for JPG, for more details I add the histogramm: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/115618-a-sane-attitude-to-rededge/?do=findComment&comment=1263593'>More sharing options...
xtoph Posted March 17, 2010 Share #53 Posted March 17, 2010 That is not the point, the point is that many of these defects, as you call them are unavoidable compromises and tradeoffs, both for Canon and Leica. no, the point is that the defect under discussion here--the red (magenta) left edge--is certainly not unavoidable, at least with leica's own lenses, and surely not with moderate wide angles such as a 28mm. it is the opposite of unavoidable. i keep hearing how the fact that making a full frame sensor work on a rangefinder was known to be a formidable challenge ahead of time, somehow excuses leica for screwing it up. no. logically, this is backaswards. it was known ahead of time that color fringing would be a problem with the ff sensor, therefore they knew exactly what to test for, and in fact we're certain they did test for it--and they screwed it up. it isn't at all like the ir problem on the m8, where they'd done the calculations and then neglected to adequately test in the real world for something you cannot see in the photo itself (or figured people would not care; m. reichmann seems to have claimed that he caught the problem in his pre-release testing, but was assured it would be gone before general release, so he didn't mention in the review). that issue was genuinely tricky to catch, though they should still have caught it. this problem, the red edge issue, was something they knew was an issue; they had to be testing it to asses the effectiveness of the in-camera correction they were developing; it is easy to test; it does appear to have been correctable, given the fw update we now have (subject to further user testing, of course); and still they failed. this is a very poor showing. it is nothing at all like canon's "failure" to magically produce a perfect af 24/1.4 for ff dslr at under $2000. no one has yet shown that is even possible; and besides, it's a darn good lens for any price. i am glad i have an m9. that doesn't mean i should have had to settle for eminently avoidable, correctable flaws to it, or that any of us should be making excuses on leica's behalf. not for this kind of money, especially. and i do heartily agree that it would help if leica (and hey, other camera makers too) were to be more forthcoming and share more detailed and trustworthy information with us all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 17, 2010 Share #54 Posted March 17, 2010 If you think it is that easy to correct, I advise you to offer your services to Leica. I'm sure you will be welcomed with open arms- and at a substantial salary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 17, 2010 Share #55 Posted March 17, 2010 For comparison two other suspects, same setting as before, but this time maximum aperture - to look for the worst: 28 Summircon @f/2: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 35 Summilux Asph @f/1.4: Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 35 Summilux Asph @f/1.4: ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/115618-a-sane-attitude-to-rededge/?do=findComment&comment=1263628'>More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 17, 2010 Share #56 Posted March 17, 2010 If you think it is that easy to correct, I advise you to offer your services to Leica. I'm sure you will be welcomed with open arms- and at a substantial salary. It's not his responsibility to offer his expert or otherwise services to Leica. However, it is entirely reasonable that Leica should offer their expertise to their customers, who pay their wages, or at least have the honesty to admit they cannot fulfil reasonable and understandable expectations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted March 17, 2010 Share #57 Posted March 17, 2010 It's not his responsibility to offer his expert or otherwise services to Leica. Let’s say I am tired of people claiming it was all so easy and Leica were just too lazy or stupid to get it right, but cannot be bothered to share their expertise in the matter. Put up or shut up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 17, 2010 Share #58 Posted March 17, 2010 Irony is lost on some, I fear. Sweeping claims of "it is poor showing" and " it is easy" etc are easy to make, but without the backup of solutions are just bluff and bluster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted March 17, 2010 Share #59 Posted March 17, 2010 For comparison two other suspects, same setting as before, but this time maximum aperture - to look for the worst: Assuming what we see is the result of overcorrecting the cyan-shift caused by the UV/IR cut filter, I wouldn’t expect this to be dependent on the f-stop. Did you find otherwise? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 18, 2010 Share #60 Posted March 18, 2010 Let’s say I am tired of people claiming it was all so easy and Leica were just too lazy or stupid to get it right, but cannot be bothered to share their expertise in the matter. Put up or shut up! Put up or shut up? Are you serious? I love my M9 but cannot enjoy the full range of lenses Leica advertises as fully functional without experiencing serious issues. If you think that is a case of "put up or shut up" sir, you have a lot to learn about business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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