What's the case against using LTM lenses on an M8?

[piblondin]

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I'm hoping to get my M8 back from the Leica repair center in the next couple weeks and am looking to pick up a fast 50mm lens. I've been primarily looking at a version 4 Summicron, but then I was thinking, "Why not consider an LTM lens with an adapter?" I'm not sure any of my reasons are even valid now that I think about it; I've acquired the following impressions over the past couple months, while I've waited for my new M8 to undergo repairs:

 

1) Older LTM lenses are less likely to be sharp than newer lenses.

 

2) LTM lenses with an adapter will add more bulk that a bayonet mount 50mm Summicron or Summarit.

 

3) An LTM lens has a lesser chance of being calibrated to focus correctly with an M8.

 

My biggest concern is 3) that an LTM lens is less likely to focus correctly. I definitely want whatever lens I get to focus sharp wide open. Are there lenses to avoid, given that concern? I'm wary about buying an LTM lens because there aren't many used ones to be had locally, so I would likely end up buying something from the forums or eBay (without a return policy). But is this a valid worry?

 

Are points 1) and 2) above at all accurate? I've been looking at images of some LTM-->M adapters online, and they don't seem to add much bulk at all, from what I can tell. I don't care about the lack of 6-bit coding on the adapter, as it shouldn't matter for a 50mm lens.

 

Any advice here is much appreciated. Should I stick with newer M-mount lenses? Or are there some good deals to be had, without compromising focus, if I'm willing to use an LTM adapter?

 

Thanks!

[ho_co]

Older lenses are older designs; they've been surpassed by modern versions. But that doesn't mean not to use them, just recognize that you're saving money and losing quality. They were all good in their day.

 

I don't agree that adding a screw>bayonet adapter increases weight or bulk.

 

I think you're off base with wondering about focus, but both old and new lenses can be adjusted to work properly if necessary. You're probably more likely to get good focus from the older lenses because they were simpler designs with simpler assembly processes.

 

Focusing problems are clearly more noticeable with the M8 than with a film camera, because the sensor is plane. But most focus problems arose with high-speed lenses because of their limited depth-of-field, and if you're buying screw-mount lenses, you're not buying speed.

 

The only drawback I see is that the lenses aren't six-bit coded, so they default to the M8's general correction. That won't be a problem in general, but might if you get a 35mm.

 

 

I know of a professional portraitist who (at least previously) preferred the cheapie consumer-grade Nikkors to the better ones, just because she didn't want sharp pictures for her business. The screw-mount Leitz lenses are different from the current crop, but nothing to be sneezed at. They were as good as you were likely to get in their day. Whether you're happy with them now is up to you and how you use them.

[luigi bertolotti]

Personally, I'm a LOT happy with a Summarit 50 f 1,5 in LTM, with BM adapter to mount it on M8... very usable and satisfying for portraits in interiors, even wide open: only issue is to arrange the UVIR filter (I found an adapter).

About focusing, I agree with Howard... no reason to worry about a LTM lens with adapter : in my opinion, it could be even better if you had to make a re-calibration... a LTM adapter is indeed very easy to be a bit "flattened" or "shimmed" in case one need a bit less or more thickness.

 

Of course, a Summarit 1,5 can't have the sharpness of a modern Lux asph... that's obvious, but, for instance, it stands up well against my Summilux 50 2nd version.

[earleygallery]

Get yourself a 5cm 3.5 red scale Elmar and be amazed at the quality from such a tiny lens (or the 3.5 M Mount is the same lens with a conventional aperture ring and no need for the adapter but it's a larger heavier lens due to the barrel design).

 

The crucial thing with any older lens is optical condition and you can only satisfy yourself of that when you see it. Many are hazy or badly marked from excessive cleaning, which results in softer lower contrast images. I'd avoid e bay unless you are certain of the sellers reputation.

[j. borger]

2 + 3 are false statements.

About sharpness.... true that newer lenses are sharper. But this does not mean older LTM are Not sharp. In alot of cases they are more than sharp enough.

All LTM lenses (summaron, summarit, summitar and some Canons) i tried exceeded my expectations when using on the M8 and were excellent performers. If you liked them with film you will enjoy them at least as much with the M8.

[brianv]

My LTM fast 50's that were properly shimmed for my film cameras were spot-on with the M8. That list includes a Nikkor 5cm F2, Nikkor 5cm F1.4, Carl Zeiss 5cm F2, Canon 50/1.4, Canon 50/1.2, Simlar 5cm F1.5, and a 1953 Jupiter 3.

[Gary B]

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Filters have not been mentioned by anyone and I'll give my 2 cents on that.

You might find that you have to use adapter rings (step-up type) on some non Leica lenses to use the uv/ir cut filter that will be wanted because of the colour shift from Leica not putting an IR filter on the sensor. Otherwise go for it. I am using Canon LTM lenses and a Rokkor 40 mm on my M8 with very good results.

[piblondin]

Thanks for the responses. I'll see what I can find!

[jaapv]

What is the problem with filters??? All sizes are available. If yyou have difficulties finding a size, order B+W online through Foto Huppert.

[brianv]

You can also look for filters made for the first generation DSLR's for use on some older lenses. I found a 48mm Canon IR cut filter for $20, works perfectly with the 50/1.4 and my 90mm F2 Summicron. I will also use it on the Nikkor 85/2 and Canon 85/2. I also found a Heliopan 49mm IR cut filter used at a camera shop, $5.

 

Add my 1935 CZJ 5cm F1.5 Sonnar to the list of lenses that focus perfectly with my M8.

 

 

I use it with a Canon P mostly, moved right onto the M8 using a Leitz adapter. Be wary of the cheap Chinese adapters, I just tested one that was WAY off. The same lens used with a Leitz adapter registered infinity "spot-on", actual focus, RF, and distance scale all agreed. Same lens, same camera, with a Chinese adapter registered infinity at the 20m mark.

[piblondin]

All LTM lenses (summaron, summarit, summitar and some Canons) i tried exceeded my expectations when using on the M8 and were excellent performers. If you liked them with film you will enjoy them at least as much with the M8.

 

How did you get a UV/IR filter for the 5cm Summitar?

[Guest mc_k]

usual way is a custom step-up adapter to E39

[ampguy]

Step up adapters are readily available. I use one for my Canon 28/2.8s, have a variety of 40-40.5, 40-43, 40-46, etc.

 

LTM lenses work fine on the M8, and are often smaller and lighter, and in some cases focus closer (CV 15/4.5).

 

I like M native mounts with Leica lenses, and Konica lenses (except 50/2.4 coll. ltm), and CV's in ltm for flexibility and smaller size.

 

With my Canon 28s, no choice, ltm only!

[piblondin]

Can someone point me towards an adapter for the Summitar that isn't too expensive? The ones I've seen range from $75 to $200 for the original Leica adapter.

[jaapv]

Contact Cameraquest for the Voigtlander adapters. Steer away from the el-cheapos on e-bay. Some may be fine, others are useless.

[jaapv]

How did you get a UV/IR filter for the 5cm Summitar?

Buy it? All sizes are available, although you may need to contact a specialized shop to finhem.

[andym911]

IMO using the LTM lenses on the M8 is a real pleasure, they are often smaller, lighter and deliver great images assuming they are in good condition.

With the adapter I have had no focussing issues whatsoever.

 

I generally use the 35/3.5 50/3.5 Elmar's as well as the 28/5.6 .

 

Great in their day and even greater on the M8.

 

Enjoy

 

Andy

[piblondin]

Buy it? All sizes are available, although you may need to contact a specialized shop to finhem.

 

Jaap, I don't believe there is a UV/IR cut filter available for the Summitar. It requires a Leica adapter, which is very rare, or a custom job by SK Grimes, based on my understanding. That means paying around $150+ just to outfit the lens with a UV/IR filter for the M8, which I don't really want to do.

 

If you have any people/links you could point me towards for a more reasonable solution or if I'm wrong in my understanding of the problem, let me know. I would be thrilled, if there's an easier solution that makes this lens viable on the M8.

 

One thing I've read elsewhere, is that there's a cheap Tiffen adapter for the Summitar to Series VI. However, I can't seem to find anything about there actually being Series VI UV/IR filters available. Anyone have info otherwise?

 

Thanks!

[Guest mc_k]

Step up adapters are readily available...

 

I think 50/2 Summitar has a specialized thread

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

Jaap, I don't believe there is a UV/IR cut filter available for the Summitar. It requires a Leica adapter, which is very rare, or a custom job by SK Grimes, based on my understanding. That means paying around $150+ just to outfit the lens with a UV/IR filter for the M8, which I don't really want to do.

 

If you have any people/links you could point me towards for a more reasonable solution or if I'm wrong in my understanding of the problem, let me know. I would be thrilled, if there's an easier solution that makes this lens viable on the M8.

 

One thing I've read elsewhere, is that there's a cheap Tiffen adapter for the Summitar to Series VI. However, I can't seem to find anything about there actually being Series VI UV/IR filters available. Anyone have info otherwise?

 

Thanks!

Series IR filters are available online through http://www.foto-huppert.de/default2.asp

 

In the B&W shop type 486 and go to page 5. I seem to remember that the Summitar shared the filter thread with the Summarit, 41, but I will have to check when I get home. In that case the screw-in will be available too.