How do I convert new light meter numbers into M3 dial numbers?

[dafferty]

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I know this is a dumb question, but I'm having a hard time finding an answer -- online or in person. I'm a beginning Leica M3 user, and I didn't know when I bought my new light meter that the numbering between the two is different. ("Old" numbers v. "new" numbers.) How do I calculate the numbers given by the new light meter to the dial(s) on the M3? If anyone is nice enough to answer this, please do so in simple language. (Although I have a Ph.D. in English, my mathematical abilities have always been roughly those of a goldfish.)

 

Many thanks!

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[andybarton]

Welcome to the forum

 

Which "numbers" are you talking about, and which dial?

 

If it's the dial on the back, then it's only there as a reminder to you for which film is in the camera. It has no "function", as the M3 has no built-in meter. I never move mine on my M2.

 

The numbers on that dial will be the older DIN numbers, relating to film speed. If you have a more modern lightmeter, that will be calibrated in ISO/ASA numbers, which are different from DIN.

 

All you need to do is note the speed of the film you are using, and set that number on your light meter.

[Xmas]

We need to know the manufacturer of the light meter and the model...

 

You also probably need the user manuals for the M3 and the light meter both should be available via google. You need the manuals initially and for reference.

 

Good thing you have a PhD as well.

 

Noel

[richam]

A warm welcome to the forum!

 

My M3 has a reminder dial that shows both DIN and ASA. I normally set the ASA pointer to the ISO speed of the film I'm using. The difference between ASA and ISO is rather esoteric (you did say you have a PhD in English), and of no practical value for this reminder pointer. As long as your external meter is set to the ISO or DIN of the film you are using, all should go well. If you want to delve into the ISO versus DIN differences, you can have a delightful, but unnecessary, sojourn into the world of logarithms. If your M3 reminder dial is like mine, you already have a built in table to do the conversion for you.

[Xmas]

The light meter may indicate the light level in several ways, you need the pair of aperture and shutter speed.

 

The aperture is the size of the iris in the lens, 2.8. 4, 5.6,... this is set on a lens ring

The shutter speed the time the shutter is open for 1, 2, 4, 8, 15,... set on the dial on the top deck of the M3 body, note 15 is 1/15 of a second

 

There is memo dial on the back door of the M3 but it does not do anything other than remember what you last set it to. This is useful if you have several leicas.

 

If you have only used automatic cameras in the past there is a learning curve you need to tolerate.

 

Noel

[menos I M6]

Are you seeing with your light meter only EV values (one numbered values) instead of the 3 displayed values for shutter speed, aperture value and ISO speed?

[UliWer]

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I think, dafferty means the different shutter times indicated on an early M3 (I think they were /1/50, 1/100, 1/200) whilst the lightmeter shows the modern sequel of 1/60, 1/125, 1/250.

 

There is not so much maths in it as it looks like. Your lightmeter will rarely show you exactly a combination of aperture and times e.g f/8 and 1/250. It will perhaps indicate something betwen f/5.6 and f/8 for 1/250, or something between 1/125 and 1/250 for f/8. So you will not be wrong with f/8 and 1/200. The other method may be to compensate longer times indicated on the camera by a half stop clicked down on the lens.

[earleygallery]

If it is shutter speeds you're talking about & if you're using negative film, then I'd just use the nearest speed and not worry about it. I take this approach with my lllf.

 

There's plenty of latitude in negative film for a little under/over exposure and it's highly unlikely that the speeds on your M3 are very accurate in any case. One test film will confirm if you need to make any compensation.

[ismon]

Don't forget--all mechanical M camera shutters are iinfinitely variable between 1/1000 to 1/60. The shutter may be marked and have click settings, but you can use in-between speeds -- just as you might use in-between settings on a lens!

[UliWer]

I think, dafferty means the different shutter times indicated on an early M3 (I think they were /1/50, 1/100, 1/200) whilst the lightmeter shows the modern sequel of 1/60, 1/125, 1/250.

 

....

 

Looking at some photos of old M3 I see they had 1/250, and not 1/200 as I presumed; though they had 1/50 and 1/100; this changed with numbers higher than 854000 in 1957 to the sequel we are used to since.

[dafferty]

If it is shutter speeds you're talking about & if you're using negative film, then I'd just use the nearest speed and not worry about it. I take this approach with my lllf.

 

There's plenty of latitude in negative film for a little under/over exposure and it's highly unlikely that the speeds on your M3 are very accurate in any case. One test film will confirm if you need to make any compensation.

Hi, James. Thanks! Are you saying that I should just adjust the M3 shutter dial to whatever the lightmeter reads and ignore the difference between the two because it's not likely to make any difference? If so, that's certainly easy. But I have a feeling I'm misreading you. Please advise. Much appreciated, Leo

[dafferty]

I think, dafferty means the different shutter times indicated on an early M3 (I think they were /1/50, 1/100, 1/200) whilst the lightmeter shows the modern sequel of 1/60, 1/125, 1/250.

 

There is not so much maths in it as it looks like. Your lightmeter will rarely show you exactly a combination of aperture and times e.g f/8 and 1/250. It will perhaps indicate something betwen f/5.6 and f/8 for 1/250, or something between 1/125 and 1/250 for f/8. So you will not be wrong with f/8 and 1/200. The other method may be to compensate longer times indicated on the camera by a half stop clicked down on the lens.

Many thanks for the fast response. You are right: that's what I was talking about. But I still don't quite get it. You seem to be saying to make a minimal compensational adjustment on the M3. Another responder simply said to do nothing -- to just use the modern lightmeter readings with the M3. Is that right? By the way, I have a Sekonic Twinmate L-208. Much appreciated, dafferty

[dafferty]

We need to know the manufacturer of the light meter and the model...

 

You also probably need the user manuals for the M3 and the light meter both should be available via google. You need the manuals initially and for reference.

 

Good thing you have a PhD as well.

 

Noel

Hi and many thanks. I do have a good M3 manual. The lightmeter is a Sekonic Twinmate L-208. Does that hellp you any in helping me? Much appreciated, dafferty

[dafferty]

Welcome to the forum

 

Which "numbers" are you talking about, and which dial?

 

If it's the dial on the back, then it's only there as a reminder to you for which film is in the camera. It has no "function", as the M3 has no built-in meter. I never move mine on my M2.

 

The numbers on that dial will be the older DIN numbers, relating to film speed. If you have a more modern lightmeter, that will be calibrated in ISO/ASA numbers, which are different from DIN.

 

All you need to do is note the speed of the film you are using, and set that number on your light meter.

Many thanks for your welcome and your thoughts! What a great site! Within 24 hours I had numerous responses, and I think I'm on my way to figuring the thing out -- although not quite there yet. Much appreciated, dafferty

[Xmas]

Hi

 

When you are happy with exposure, the meter and the M3 you then need to think about the subject, but don't rush e.g.

 

Zone System Jargon !? - Photo.net Large Format Forum

 

But note the Leica is about spontaneous, e.g. HCB's the decisive moment.

 

Pushing the shutter is sometimes more important than adjusting speed or aperture.

 

Noel

[iShutterbug]

I know this is a dumb question, but I'm having a hard time finding an answer -- online or in person. I'm a beginning Leica M3 user, and I didn't know when I bought my new light meter that the numbering between the two is different. ("Old" numbers v. "new" numbers.) How do I calculate the numbers given by the new light meter to the dial(s) on the M3? If anyone is nice enough to answer this, please do so in simple language. (Although I have a Ph.D. in English, my mathematical abilities have always been roughly those of a goldfish.)

Many thanks!

 

Welcome to the Forum. I shoot a IIIf (while I'm saving up for an M10) and have the same situation with my Sekonic L558R meter and VC II meter--how to extrapolate the "new" shutter speed readings on the meters to the "old" shutter speeds on my camera.

 

My meter shutter speeds are: 1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250, 1/500, 1/1000.

My camera shutter speeds are: 1/25, 1/50, (ignore 1/75), 1/100, 1/200, 1/500, 1/1000.

 

I was bothered at first (and a little miffed) that I couldn't dial in the "old" speeds on my new expensive meter when I got it. I guess too much time had lapsed since the changeover. Anyway, on the higher-speed dial, it turns out there are only four commonly-used exposure meter shutter speeds that are different from my camera (1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250) and they are so close it's easy to set the speed dial on the camera to 1/25, 1/50, 1/100, 1/200 respectively.

 

I am okay doing this because I shoot negative film and on those speeds I'm over-exposing slightly, making the negative darker, which is fine with me for more information in the negative. Now, if you're shooting positive film (slides or chromes) it works the other way and over-exposing slightly will make your slide lighter, and if you scan it there will be less color information in your scan.

 

The comment was made here earlier that actual shutter speeds on our classic cameras might not be that accurate and that is true so a lot of this is academic and an evaluation of results must be the final arbiter with regard to film, that film's speed (ISO)(which you can also tweak up or down on your meter) and each of those four slightly different shutter speeds.

 

If it turns out that your camera's shutter speeds are really off--generally too slow--then I would adjust your meter's film speed setting up or down slightly to compensate (again, depending on whether you are shooting negative or positive film) and retain the above shutter speed conversions for easy-to-remember usage in the field.

 

Good shooting!

[andybarton]

Then there are those, like me, who over expose our B&W film, and under-develop it. So many choices...

[dafferty]

Many thanks, kind sir! Question answered, problem solved! Much appreciated,

 

dafferty

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[dafferty]

Welcome to the Forum. I shoot a IIIf (while I'm saving up for an M10) and have the same situation with my Sekonic L558R meter and VC II meter--how to extrapolate the "new" shutter speed readings on the meters to the "old" shutter speeds on my camera.

 

My meter shutter speeds are: 1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250, 1/500, 1/1000.

My camera shutter speeds are: 1/25, 1/50, (ignore 1/75), 1/100, 1/200, 1/500, 1/1000.

 

I was bothered at first (and a little miffed) that I couldn't dial in the "old" speeds on my new expensive meter when I got it. I guess too much time had lapsed since the changeover. Anyway, on the higher-speed dial, it turns out there are only four commonly-used exposure meter shutter speeds that are different from my camera (1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250) and they are so close it's easy to set the speed dial on the camera to 1/25, 1/50, 1/100, 1/200 respectively.

 

I am okay doing this because I shoot negative film and on those speeds I'm over-exposing slightly, making the negative darker, which is fine with me for more information in the negative. Now, if you're shooting positive film (slides or chromes) it works the other way and over-exposing slightly will make your slide lighter, and if you scan it there will be less color information in your scan.

 

The comment was made here earlier that actual shutter speeds on our classic cameras might not be that accurate and that is true so a lot of this is academic and an evaluation of results must be the final arbiter with regard to film, that film's speed (ISO)(which you can also tweak up or down on your meter) and each of those four slightly different shutter speeds.

 

If it turns out that your camera's shutter speeds are really off--generally too slow--then I would adjust your meter's film speed setting up or down slightly to compensate (again, depending on whether you are shooting negative or positive film) and retain the above shutter speed conversions for easy-to-remember usage in the field.

 

Good shooting!

Many thanks, kind sir! Question answered, problem solved!

 

Much appreciated,

 

dafferty

[earleygallery]

Hi, James. Thanks! Are you saying that I should just adjust the M3 shutter dial to whatever the lightmeter reads and ignore the difference between the two because it's not likely to make any difference? If so, that's certainly easy. But I have a feeling I'm misreading you. Please advise. Much appreciated, Leo

 

I think you've got it? Basically yes set the M3 to the nearest equivalent shutter speed, the latitude of the film should be wide enough to allow for the slight difference but shoot a test roll or two first and adjust as necessary (as your shutter may already be running off time).