35 summicron for lowlight?

[thinkfloyd]

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Hello, I am considering getting a 35 summicron v4 for my M8. My question, will it be good enough for indoor lowlight shots? I have a Canon 50/1.2 which I use for lowlight, but in order to fund the summicron, I'd need to sell the Canon. Is it worth it to lose the extra stops an f/1.2 lens gives for an excellent lens like the 35 summicron?

 

Below is how I shoot at dark (.045secs, 1.2, iso 2500, ev -1)

 

Can a summicron do this? Or should I just save up the next 10 months for it and keep the 50/1.2?

 

ps: the reason why I am in such a hurry to get a 35mm is because my widest is the 50mm. I thought about other 35mm's but I know that if I do, I will always dream of the summicron, and I'll end up spending more.

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[Guest roey]

According to the metadata you underexposed by a stop at ISO 2500 and 1/20s. Assuming everything else being equal, you would have to handhold the M8/35mm Summicron for ~ 1/8s at f/2. And, if you manage to do that, you'd end up with a picture that is quite a bit noisier than the picture you posted (M8 at ISO 2500 pushed by a stop). So, judging by the numbers I would say: no.

 

On the other hand, a Summicron might get you other pictures that you would not get with your Canon outfit ...

[thinkfloyd]

Thanks roey... I didn't push the shot above though. Just did some tweaking in silerefex pro. But you do have a point, the slowest speed I can handhold is 1/15. oh well... and yeah, having a soft lens as a main lens does limit the M8's potential...

[ashrafazlan]

Have you thought about the cheap noktons? I don't have any experience with them myself but they seem to be sharp for the price, and the newer ones seem to have less focus shift too. Of course, a 35mm summicron would give you a much shorter focal length (46mm) compared to the 50 (66mm) so that might just be enough to handhold at 1/8s with acceptable sharpness.

[jaapv]

Of course, you could get a Noctilux..

[geoffreyg]

Yes and no.

 

The 'cron won't allow quite the same shot, as the DOF and the light levels will be different. That said, the f2 does ease the difficulty of focusing wide open, and gives a bit more lattitude as to where the focus plane needs (and ought) to be.

 

So - not exactly the same, but close? I find it works well in low light, but not very low light, if that makes sense. For that, you need the next stop or two, however you find it.

 

Shots below from a tool store in Maine, low light. 50 'cron, which I like a great deal.

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[thinkfloyd]

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I've been experimenting shooting with f2 and 1.2, Sre the extra speed helps, but I'm not yet sure if it will make a difference. We al know that no matter how stopped down the Canon is, it won't match the summicron wide open.

 

Ah the Noctilux... part of my dream 3 lens kit! The 35 summicron, 50 Noctilux (new or old doesn't matter!) and a 75 summicron! haha... one at a time... after maybe 10 years

[lct]

F/2 is not wide enough for low light IMHO. The inexpensive CV 35/1.4 SC gives very good results at f/1.4 if you don't shoot against the light as it flares a lot. Suffers from focus shift at f/2.8 and slower apertures though.

[ezc203]

Have to agree with ICT. You should definitely consider the CV 35/1,4. I have it and its my main lens right now (until the 24 'Lux comes in) and I must say its a spectacular lens at $400.

[russell]

Or you can shoot 3 shots at 1/8th and hope one is with less shake/movement.

[jaapv]

You need to train a bit. Shooting an M camera with a 35 at 1/8th on should result in a success rate of well over 80%.

[jaapv]

Not that it is always needed: M8, Summicron 35 asph, ISO 1250, 1/60th, out of camera JPG:

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[brianv]

You'll miss the Canon 50/1.2 for that extra 1.5 stops. Sometimes you need it. I sold my original Canon 50/1.2 just to buy a replacement.

 

Canon 50/1.2 wide-open on the M8, ISO 2500, table candle as main lighting source.

 

 

Focus on the Dessert.

 

I picked up a used Voigtlander/Cosina 35/1.7 Ultron for under $250, need to try it on the M8. I've used it with film cameras in low-light, and it does quite well. You could pick up one, save your money for 10 months, sell it and get the Leica lens if you wanted.

[Anguish]

You can also set the shutter delay timer on the M8 for 2 sec. and hold your breath - that will get you an extra stop, although you will lose the decisive moment. And use the "string tripod" mentioned in another thread (no pun intended). You tie a loop in one end and slip it over your lens - not over a rotating part - then step on the bottom end and pull up to brace. In the nightclub, please use a black string.

[Knomad]

With my film M bodies, I always used a 50mm Summilux for low light work... which for me, often means shooting outdoors at night in urban areas by little more than streetlight.

 

When I bought my M8, the obvious impulse was to use my fastest lens, which was the Summilux. But I found that with the crop factor, that was more difficult than using the same lens with film.

 

So eventually I tried using a 35mm Summicron (pre-aspherical, version IV) for night work and was pleasantly surprised by the results. I've kept the ISO at about 640 to stay clear of excessive noise, and have been able to shoot wide open at an average of about 1/8th second, sometimes down to 1/2 second without much difficulty. As nice as it would be to have a 35mm Summilux for that work, I'm now in no hurry to rush out and buy one, thus far the Summicron is working just fine.

 

I'm at the office now and don't have any images at hand to post, may try to find an example or two later.

[Maggie_O]

Have to agree with ICT. You should definitely consider the CV 35/1,4. I have it and its my main lens right now (until the 24 'Lux comes in) and I must say its a spectacular lens at $400.

 

I concur. If you get a good one, it can be very, very good.

 

My Flickr set of M8 + Nokton Classic 35/1.4

 

Here are a couple of shots from it:

 

 

 

The Voigtländer 35/1.7 Ultron is also an outstanding lens- it has a real character- very sharp, but medium contrast. I would use it more if it focused as closely as the Nokton, but the 1 meter minimum is kind of a drag.

 

My Flickr set of M8 + Ultron 35/1.7

 

And here's a couple of shots from it:

 

 

[Maggie_O]

Oh, and here's a couple from the Ultron in low light:

 

 

[miklosphoto]

The Summicron 35mm ASPH was the first lens I got for my M8. I bought it because that was the only lens I could afford. It worked just fine in many low light situation, however, there is a huge variation in what really low light is. In most of the cases, the low light means that there is some light source but it is directional and lights up only part of the scene, i.e. high contrast. For those situations the Summicron is perfect.

Other low light situations mean that your subject could be in dark areas of the scene and then it is simply not low light but bad light or no light. There you need to modify how the scene will be represented, i.e. the final image will show a much lighter scene than in reality it was. In those cases the Summicron is not enough.

For that real low light I use the 24 and 50 Summiluxes. That said, I have contemplated a lot to sell the Summicron and buy the Summilux 35mm. But there is something which made me always reconsider, I simply can't part with the Summicron. It is a fantastic lens, small, light, sharp, I can't say anything wrong about it.

Also here is my logic about the usage of the different focal lengths (on M8):

24mm Summilux - indoor, low light, night scenes - and because of the wider angle I can push the shutter speed limit even further.

35mm Summicron - walkaround, ourdoor, daylight - in those situations I does everything you need

50mm Summilux - well, it stays mainly on my M7, on M8 I use it actually for such scenes as the OP image, low light, indoor, concerts, and for studio portraits with studio lights.

 

I would actually get the Summicron because it is going to serve you forever, who knows maybe in 2 years you'll get a used M9 and you will have that Summicron for what it was designed for in the first place.

 

BTW, I tried the Nokton 35mm and it is not bad, but it is just not giving you the Leica feel. And at f/1.2 it is not even close to the Summiluxes wide open.

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[ashrafazlan]

BTW, I tried the Nokton 35mm and it is not bad, but it is just not giving you the Leica feel. And at f/1.2 it is not even close to the Summiluxes wide open.

 

Of course. It doesn't even come close to the summilux's price, so no one's gonna expect it to outperform the summilux. What it does do is allow you to shoot at 1.2

[thinkfloyd]

Slowly but surely I am getting convinced it is worth to sell my stuff to get the summicron... thanks for the replies guys.

 

I've had a 40 nokton before, and despite being a sharp and nice lens, I felt nothing about the photos I get from it. The 35 nokton, and other 35's, are tempting, but I know that even if I get one, I'd still be pining for the summicron. It would be my main (and most likely, only) lens.

 

Given my situation, I'd like to know your thoughts... if I were to have a single lens on my M8 (and maybe, eventually M9 after several years), will the summicron be the right choice? (I am a "normal" shooter btw)