Guest wls.shanghai Posted January 27, 2010 Share #21 Posted January 27, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) just for your information: NO company in Germany hire people with a "open-ended contract" all people get only a limit contract, many times from a "Labour Leasing" Company and they pay many many times a starvation wages, with very bad condition, people must go to the government and ask for help!!!!!! many companys, also "big" names hire people as a "peon" pay 3, 4, or 5 Euros per hour!!! This week we had a court in Germany, a company paid 1,35 Euro per hour. In Germany there is NO minimum wage like in Franc, Britain or USA etc. Merkel & Co are extreme against a minimum wage!!! she and the capitalist like this exploitation. wls ..sorry for my poor english Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Hi Guest wls.shanghai, Take a look here German Labor Law and Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest zwicko Posted January 27, 2010 Share #22 Posted January 27, 2010 just for your information: NO company in Germany hire people with a "open-ended contract" all people get only a limit contract, many times from a "Labour Leasing" Company and they pay many many times a starvation wages, with very bad condition, people must go to the government and ask for help!!!!!! many companys, also "big" names hire people as a "peon" pay 3, 4, or 5 Euros per hour!!! This week we had a court in Germany, a company paid 1,35 Euro per hour. In Germany there is NO minimum wage like in Franc, Britain or USA etc. Merkel & Co are extreme against a minimum wage!!! she and the capitalist like this exploitation. wls ..sorry for my poor english That is mere propaganda. And you know it. Just the usual gibbersih from you... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wls.shanghai Posted January 27, 2010 Share #23 Posted January 27, 2010 That is mere propaganda. And you know it.Just the usual gibbersih from you... nothing propaganda what I wrote is fact: just one correction: the company paid 1,32 Euro only and not 1,35 Euro per hour. source: DPA 26.1.2010 Unterlassen Sie die Beleidigungen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zwicko Posted January 27, 2010 Share #24 Posted January 27, 2010 nothing propaganda what I wrote is fact: Really? So this is true, right? Not even one single company in Germany? NO company in Germany hire people with a "open-ended contract" This is also true, right? all people get only a limit contract(...) What about this? In Germany there is NO minimum wage Truth is that in 1997 minimum wages were introduced in the German construction sector. What about the government's decision to implement a minimum wage of Euro 8.02 an hour in the waste sector? Simply not true, I guess,... And that is a fact based on what? she and the capitalist like this exploitation. I thought that people must go to the government and ask for help!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 27, 2010 Share #25 Posted January 27, 2010 Have to say Germany is a great place to do business. There's a formality, structure and politeness about the place which I find refreshing compared to the instant first name - you are my brother but I'll stab you in the back if I have to - terms of the UK and US. Great place to visit as well, good food and wine and I can drive at 160+ mph in the right place without getting jailed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest m8-fan Posted January 27, 2010 Share #26 Posted January 27, 2010 Have to say Germany is a great place to do business. There's a formality, structure and politeness about the place which I find refreshing compared to the instant first name - you are my brother but I'll stab you in the back if I have to - terms of the UK and US. Great place to visit as well, good food and wine and I can drive at 160+ mph in the right place without getting jailed. Thank You, great to hear these kind words. Great place to visit as well, good food and wine and I can drive at 160+ mph in the right place without getting jailed. But some would say: just for your information: NO company in Germany hire people with a "open-ended contract" (...) ..sorry for my poor english There is NO place in Germany where you can do this anymore. ..sorry for my poor knowledge . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wls.shanghai Posted January 27, 2010 Share #27 Posted January 27, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Have to say Germany is a great place to do business. There's a formality, structure and politeness about the place which I find refreshing compared to the instant first name - you are my brother but I'll stab you in the back if I have to - terms of the UK and US. Great place to visit as well, good food and wine and I can drive at 160+ mph in the right place without getting jailed. I have one wish: please buy the STERN Magazin from 21.01.2010 and read the Titelstory: "Geschäftsmodell" Ausbeutung tks. for the kind words, but the realty here looks different! Regards wls Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wls.shanghai Posted January 27, 2010 Share #28 Posted January 27, 2010 Really? So this is true, right? Not even one single company in Germany? This is also true, right? What about this? Truth is that in 1997 minimum wages were introduced in the German construction sector. What about the government's decision to implement a minimum wage of Euro 8.02 an hour in the waste sector? Simply not true, I guess,... And that is a fact based on what? I thought that once more I wrote: In Germany is NO minimum wages like in France, Britain or USA this is correct und true! And your insults will not change this facts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craftsman Posted January 27, 2010 Share #29 Posted January 27, 2010 Have to say Germany is a great place to do business. There's a formality, structure and politeness about the place which I find refreshing compared to the instant first name - you are my brother but I'll stab you in the back if I have to - terms of the UK and US. Great place to visit as well, good food and wine and I can drive at 160+ mph in the right place without getting jailed. Pretty cynical view of the U.S. and the U.K. We call you by your first because that IS your name. Theres a certain level of formailty that's viewed as a bit pretentious here in the U.S.and we really don't stab eveyone in the back , most we just shoot if we have to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted January 27, 2010 Share #30 Posted January 27, 2010 Leica needs highly-skillled "Facharbeiter", they're trained by Leica and special "technical colleges". You fire them, they won't come back as easy. So Leica has to find and train new employees, the training alone takes about 3-3 1/2 years. Good employees are never easy to find and never cheap! But they make the difference to cheap-labour-countries! Here are average production wages: Global mfg. wage comparison. | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com "Slave labour" ( = the state has to compensate the low wage paid by the company, in Germany everbody is considered poor who has less than 1400$/month income after taxes/insurances!) is usually done in services, restaurants and especially in Eastern Germany - no well-trained "Facharbeiter" or any other person involved into "Made in Germany" (working for Leica, Mercedes, BMW, Miele, Stihl, Trumpf, Sennheiser...) would usually work for 8€/h or average minimum wages outside Germany. This training as well as the long-term contracts are necessary and efficient but only when they're done in an economic world which seeks long-term goals - which currently isn't the case. That's why only cheap slave-labour gains power and crashes our whole (worldwide) economic system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronazle Posted January 27, 2010 Share #31 Posted January 27, 2010 Since we used to waite over a year for a new Mercedes what's the problem waiting a couple of month for a camera?? Makes the product even more desirable!From the bright side: As long as it is not delivered it is not obsolete and holds it's price I think I must disagree somewhat. Unlike the Mercedes, the Leica obsolescence clock is ticking rapidly. To wait for a Leica is to lose money at a possibly unacceptable rate given the rapid progress of digital photography technology. Andy, very good post which no doubt stimulates serious thought. regards, ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted January 27, 2010 Share #32 Posted January 27, 2010 In my point of view minimum wages are not required as there is a lower limit set by the welfare system in Germany. Below this most people simply won't work. It is another discussion if this limit is at too high or low level. Just to mention, there are also too many exploiting the working people by misuse of the welfare system which is set up to help the people who are in need of it. Regards Steve BTW, this discussion has nothing to do with Leica. once more I wrote: In Germany is NO minimum wages like in France, Britain or USA this is correct und true! And your insults will not change this facts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 27, 2010 Share #33 Posted January 27, 2010 To wait for a Leica is to lose money at a possibly unacceptable rate given the rapid progress of digital photography technology. Are you quite sure about this? What rapid progress can we wxpct in the next few months? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted January 27, 2010 Share #34 Posted January 27, 2010 Are you quite sure about this? What rapid progress can we wxpct in the next few months? You don't seem to read this forum properly: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/106409-leica-m12-problems.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronazle Posted January 28, 2010 Share #35 Posted January 28, 2010 Are you quite sure about this? What rapid progress can we wxpct in the next few months? Yes. I have no idea. regards, ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wls.shanghai Posted January 31, 2010 Share #36 Posted January 31, 2010 I have one wish: please buy the STERN Magazin from 21.01.2010 and read the Titelstory: "Geschäftsmodell" Ausbeutung tks. for the kind words, but the realty here looks different! Regards wls ..........someone has read the story in the magazin??? It would be very interesting to hear other opinions too. Inhuman exploitation "business model" in Germany, one of the richest countries on earth - in the year 2010 !!!!! tks. and have a nice sunday wls Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewittehd Posted January 31, 2010 Share #37 Posted January 31, 2010 just for your information: NO company in Germany hire people with a "open-ended contract" all people get only a limit contract, many times from a "Labour Leasing" Company and they pay many many times a starvation wages, with very bad condition, people must go to the government and ask for help!!!!!! many companys, also "big" names hire people as a "peon" pay 3, 4, or 5 Euros per hour!!! This week we had a court in Germany, a company paid 1,35 Euro per hour. In Germany there is NO minimum wage like in Franc, Britain or USA etc. Merkel & Co are extreme against a minimum wage!!! she and the capitalist like this exploitation. wls ..sorry for my poor english You claim you live in Frankfurt and yet you write an un-truth like that........... I'll have to check my employment contract which ran for more that 30 years and see if I missed something......... Also, have a look at U.S. Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Division (WHD) - Minimum Wage Laws in the States, showing minimum wages of 3.75 Euro in Minnesota which of course is not a "peon pay". Jean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mby Posted January 31, 2010 Share #38 Posted January 31, 2010 ..........someone has read the story in the magazin??? It would be very interesting to hear other opinions too. Inhuman exploitation "business model" in Germany, one of the richest countries on earth - in the year 2010 !!!!! tks. and have a nice sunday wls Did you actually read it thoroughly? - I wasted nearly 25 minutes and listened to its podcast at http://www.dzb.de/aktuelles/stern-podcast/2010/003 and did not hear your generalizing claims against each and every company in Germany... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankA Posted January 31, 2010 Share #39 Posted January 31, 2010 Are you guys crazy? Suggesting Leica set their M9 price too low? People who believe this probably have more money then they know what to do with and don't care about price. It is not our responsibility to make profits for leica by paying higher prices. It is leicas responsibility make a profit by controlling costs based on price. The production capacity is clearly limited and they understand that. No matter how much demand there is, cameras and lenses come out at the pace they can produce them. My guess is they are maximizing profits right now with demand. If they raised prices now with so many on lists to get this camera it would be a slap in the face of its loyal fans. The price is too high in my opinion. It is a 18mp manual camera that will be outdated in a couple of years. Its biggest costs are probably not parts but labor. There is not an unlimited value on quality. At a price point, quality no longer matters except to a few and demand dries up. Leica knows this. It is not easy to keep it in balance. Just a different view. I think the "I want it now" mentality is driving most of the frustration and criticisms of Leica. I think Leica is doing just fine. But there is the cracked sensor cover issue that they have had to address. Absent that, I think most people would have their M9's. Frank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted February 1, 2010 Share #40 Posted February 1, 2010 ... It is a 18mp manual camera that will be outdated in a couple of years. ... Keep polishing that crystal ball. Oh, and you might want to explain just what "outdated" means in this context. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.