regedit Posted January 22, 2010 Share #21 Posted January 22, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) adan, I'm 47 years old and more than half of my life i spent in communist Country, so maybe I am queasy... But I wonder, what will happen next, what the Leica will celebrate, maybe anniversary of the Soviet Union or anniversary of Fascism? Perhaps Stalin's or Kim Ir Sen's birthday? Grigorij, I'm from Romania, 34 but old enough to understand what you feel. I guess that only one that truly understand your point. Communism have other relevance for the western boys, but let's left the bad past behind and enjoy our passion for Leica. This is not a place and audience for such a topic, trust me. As you can see, reactions are quite different. Other people really can't understand communist drama since they don't live it, and see this Leica move just like a market opportunity. Russians disassemble factories from Germany and move them into Rusia after they win the war and actually steal technology but now Leica does have a big story in Moskow. Mixing old history feelings with actual business is not good. Trust me. Look just in now perspective. Regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Hi regedit, Take a look here LEICA supports the China government!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Dan States Posted January 22, 2010 Share #22 Posted January 22, 2010 There's big difference between offering a special edition for the Chinese market and this tasteless offering CELEBRATING the specific formation of a government that is responsible for vast misery and destruction. Considering that few governments in the world have advanced the cause of censorship and artistic expression better than the People Republic, Leica's judgement stinks here. What's next? The "Great Leap Forward" edition? The Pol Pot Dlux4? Terrible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan States Posted January 22, 2010 Share #23 Posted January 22, 2010 So outrage at a limited edition Leica, but we'll turn a blind eye to all of the products we're buying everyday which are made or part made in China, including probably the equipment you're using to read this website! My mother taught me that two wrongs don't make a right. Buying products from countries that ignore human rights and exploit unfair market practises is also wrong. Thanks for pointing that out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted January 22, 2010 Share #24 Posted January 22, 2010 My mother taught me that two wrongs don't make a right. Buying products from countries that ignore human rights and exploit unfair market practises is also wrong. Thanks for pointing that out. That's pretty much every company in existence now, unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 22, 2010 Share #25 Posted January 22, 2010 That's my point. If people are really outraged then hit the Chinese where it hurts most, but of course it would be almost impossible to do. Our (the West's) demand for cheap consumer goods and our businesses quest for lower costs/higher profits are only making the Chinese stronger. I suspect some of the components in your digital Leica's come from China too. I'm not in any way supporting their Government or their despicable human rights record, but really a few 'collectors' Leica's aren't worth getting upset over when you look at the bigger picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted January 22, 2010 Share #26 Posted January 22, 2010 ...This is not a place and audience for such a topic, trust me. ... I think this forum is an appropriate place to discuss these issues. Each member of the audience here may have different opinions about it, which is a good sign as it sets this forum apart from what authoritarian governments would like to have from their audiences. I don't like this special Leica edition. Former special editions highlighted individuals or institutions mainly on a non-political basis. When there was a political implication - as with Vaclav Havel or Queen Elizabeth II - Leica could justify this as the individuals were also interested in photography. Now it is a state, which cannot be set apart from politics and which cannot be linked to photography. Therefore the question has to be asked, whether the state of China is an appropriate symbol for Leica Cameras. Ernst Leitz II, Elsie Kühn-Leitz and other members of their family have always clearly stood for democracy and the rights of individuals. I am sure, if they has to decide to whom they would commemorate their cameras it would be Liu Xiaobo Liu Xiaobo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and not the state which imprisones him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 22, 2010 Share #27 Posted January 22, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) In the same vein, don't forget the Jesse Owens R3. It would be interesting to know the thinking that went into the Chinese Edition. Let's hope it's just a forerunner to the Dalai Lama Special Edition to be introduced soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted January 23, 2010 Share #28 Posted January 23, 2010 adan, I'm 47 years old and more than half of my life i spent in communist Country, so maybe I am queasy... But I wonder, what will happen next, what the Leica will celebrate, maybe anniversary of the Soviet Union or anniversary of Fascism? Perhaps Stalin's or Kim Ir Sen's birthday? They'll start selling them in Wal Mart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted January 23, 2010 Share #29 Posted January 23, 2010 Just for one moment, is it possible this engraving was done after-market and nicely packaged for sale in China, probably engraved in country also.? It is quite amazing what one can do with $100 in packaging and engraving. Suppose Leica have a official list of all limited edition cameras.? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakewood Posted January 23, 2010 Share #30 Posted January 23, 2010 I was just wondering if anyone feeling offended actually had a chance experiencing life in China. Have you had the chance to talk to the people on the street, do you know what is their point of view? China is a system and country easy to brand mark and condemn - it is different, it is not understandable, it is far away and all those many Chinese look the same anyway... Be my guest come here and take the efforts to actually get your own opinion. It should be noted as well that this special edition is obviously driven by Schmidt Marketing rather than LEICA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 23, 2010 Share #31 Posted January 23, 2010 "...obviously driven by Schmidt Marketing rather than LEICA" True, as with some other Asian-only cameras (olive-drab MPs, etc.) Still, it's Leica's name on the product. Bo - neither is complete, but... Leica Camera AG - Special Editions or Classic Camera Profiles (scroll down about three screens-full to "Leica M rangefinder" section. (I still wish Leica had put a portrait of Fred Astaire on the "Royal Wedding" M6 ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted January 23, 2010 Share #32 Posted January 23, 2010 Remember Leica is........ A BUSINESS......... IF YOU WANT TO DO BUSINESS IN ASIA, YOU HAVE TO SUCK UP TO THEM FIRST. I am glad I didn't go to Vietnam back in 1969, The Australian Goverment told me we need to send you young Men up there to keep those COMMIES from invading Australia. So why did all those young American and it's allied men ........ Die for. Ken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted January 23, 2010 Share #33 Posted January 23, 2010 Tab down and you will see English in very small type: "60th anniversary of People's Republic of China Leica M8.2 Limited Edition. Leica M8.2 silver camera special for '60th anniversary of People of China in 2009 [sic]' limited edition in 100 pieces. The camera body has Mao Zedong front type....red calligraphy and Tiananmen Square pattern. The reference price is RMB53,890." At the current exchange rates, that's USD 7,892 or 5,583 euros or GBP 4,898. Judging by the growing numbers of China's nouveau riche intent on flaunting their new found wealth there will probably be a few buyers. Most of these Leicas will probably end up in display cabinets and never used, which is one of the saddest things about these special editions. "Mao Zedong type, Tienanmen Square?" Yes, that really does seem ironic considering recent Chinese history. In fact, bizarre. I agree this is not a well-considered piece of marketing: profit above all seems to be the only concern here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted January 23, 2010 Share #34 Posted January 23, 2010 I was just wondering if anyone feeling offended actually had a chance experiencing life in China. Have you had the chance to talk to the people on the street, do you know what is their point of view? China is a system and country easy to brand mark and condemn - it is different, it is not understandable, it is far away and all those many Chinese look the same anyway... Be my guest come here and take the efforts to actually get your own opinion. It should be noted as well that this special edition is obviously driven by Schmidt Marketing rather than LEICA. Yep, lived there, worked there. Nearly stayed there. If I had a dollar for every idiots unfounded remark .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted January 23, 2010 Share #35 Posted January 23, 2010 Hamey, havent I seen an Mdigital with the top plate engraved in celebration of nguyen van jaap? No one got pissed off with that:rolleyes:. Still, he wasnt fond of the Chinese either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AgXlove Posted January 23, 2010 Share #36 Posted January 23, 2010 I was just wondering if anyone feeling offended actually had a chance experiencing life in China. Have you had the chance to talk to the people on the street, do you know what is their point of view? China is a system and country easy to brand mark and condemn - it is different, it is not understandable, it is far away and all those many Chinese look the same anyway... Be my guest come here and take the efforts to actually get your own opinion. It should be noted as well that this special edition is obviously driven by Schmidt Marketing rather than LEICA. The people of a nation are not the government. These are two distinctly different groups of people - particularly so in a totalitarian regieme such as Communist China. Yes, any government that murders somewnere between 20 and 35 million of its own people is easy to condemn. That's part of the deal when a handful of Political Class thugs commit genocide against the defenseless citizens they supposedly serve. A photographer friend of mine traveled extensively in China. He found the Chinese people to be warm, friendly and hospitable. They would take him into their homes and make him meals, in spite of the fact that he was an "ugly American." "The people of China are warm and generous - it's their government that's a bunch of assholes," he observed. My response was "How about that - China is just like America!" In the interest of fairness and balance, Leica must now create a commemorative camera honoring the 20 to 35 million Chinese who were murdered by their own government. A black on black finish with blood red engraving would seem to be approperiate, rather than the festive red and gold finish of the model that commerates the genocidal ChiCom regieme. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangur Ban Posted January 23, 2010 Share #37 Posted January 23, 2010 Does this explain the current 50mm Summilux shortage - they're all being sprayed gold? I read that there are over 110,000 millionaires in Shanghai alone. That's a lot of potential Leica purchasers in one city, let alone all the normal folk who might buy one. It's great that Leica is promoting itself to this market and terrible that they're commemorating one of the most oppressive regimes of all. What's next - the Taliban special edition? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted January 23, 2010 Share #38 Posted January 23, 2010 Has anyone else considered the possibility that it's all ironic? If I understand it right, conspicuous consumption and ownership of precious objects has almost always played a very important role in the Chinese class system. The early decades of the PRC were a striking exception to this - iron rice bowl, barefoot doctors etc. and flaunting wealth was not just bad form but often fatal. In the last 20 years the pendulum has swung far and fast the other way. So how better to celebrate the inauguration of the workers' and peasants' paradise than with a plutocratic symbol that - for insiders - itself harks back to Leica's days as a Hermes plaything of the rich? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted January 24, 2010 Share #39 Posted January 24, 2010 ... Well, we shall see. I am still not convinced that these are real. Cheers, Uwe Even though I stated that I was put off by the "news" about Leica commemorating "60 years of the People's Republic of China" I think you are reasonable with your scepticism about the factual backgrounds. The "People's Republic of China" was officially founded on 1. October 1949. Would anybody present a M8.2 sixty years later to commemorate this date after this model already ceased to be produced and was substituted by the M9 just about 3 weeks earlier? Maybe somebody wanted to commemorate the "ancien regime"...? The whole thing does not seem to be very probable. We need some facts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbelyaev Posted January 25, 2010 Share #40 Posted January 25, 2010 I'm sorry, but the comments on communism/socialism made by people who have never lived in those societies are oversimplified to the point that they are simply funny.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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