piblondin Posted January 10, 2010 Share #1 Posted January 10, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi everyone-- After years of pining for an M series camera, I recently ordered a used M8 from a reputable U.S. dealer. Thanks to those in another thread I started who I can't believe that something in such good condition is considered used, and I'm completely thrilled to finally have an M, but that's another subject. Anyhow, today I received my first lens, the CV Nokton 40mm f/1.4. (Yes, I know the criticism about putting a cheap lens on an expensive body, but I did my research, and it's what I want to work with until I move on to a 35mm Summicron.) However, I'm, like many others, having some back focusing issues. I was photographing some people earlier today from about 2m and noticed that though I was focusing on their eyes or noses, their faces looked soft when I reviewed the images. So, I decided to do a little testing with a ruler, and the camera appears to be back focusing by about 2 inches from a distance of approximately 1m. I was shooting everything wide open at f/1.4. Now, my question is, what should I do? I don't think I'll be happy with this issue unless it's resolved because I do shoot often with my lenses wide open or close to it. I read a bunch of the back focusing threads before I got my M, hoping that I wouldn't have problems, but, of course, something had to come up. :-D Should I try to adjust the infinity focus myself? Should I just contact the dealer and send it back to them? (They provided a 90-day warranty with the camera.) Should I try out my local German camera repair specialist? Any advice is appreciated! Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 10, 2010 Posted January 10, 2010 Hi piblondin, Take a look here Just got an M8, back focus w/ Nokton 40, what to do?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
piblondin Posted January 10, 2010 Author Share #2 Posted January 10, 2010 What are the odds that it's the lens vs. the M8? I don't have other lenses to test against, so I'll try taking it to the store on Monday to try some other lenses and isolate the issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanthor Posted January 10, 2010 Share #3 Posted January 10, 2010 Hi, you need to go to a store that carries Leica lenses and find out if it's the camera. If so, return the camera or negotiate with the dealer for a fix. If the lens then return it. It is very unusual for either a Leica camera or a VC/Leica lens to be off by that much, unlike many other brands. Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piblondin Posted January 10, 2010 Author Share #4 Posted January 10, 2010 Thanks, Bob. I will hit the local Leica dealer tomorrow or Monday. Looking forward to getting this resolved! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted January 10, 2010 Share #5 Posted January 10, 2010 It is very unusual for either a Leica camera or a VC/Leica lens to be off by that much, unlike many other brands. Bob. It's not unusual for Voigtlander lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted January 10, 2010 Share #6 Posted January 10, 2010 Piblondin, I had a Nokton 40/1.4 some time ago, I've sold it when I bought a Summicron-C 40/2 that in spite of costing less than the Nokton, performs double as good and has no focus shift at all. The Nokton 40/1.4 is a strong focus shifter. I had great problems shooting with the Nokton on my M8. It may be a great lens but it is unaffordable when focusing. The issue is probably in your lens, not in the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 10, 2010 Share #7 Posted January 10, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) CV lenses are like Russian ones i'm afraid, some copies are very good but others are poor to say the least. I would try to get another copy of the 40/1.4 if i were you as some photogs are very happy with it. I did not buy one personally as i'm quite happy with the Summicron-C 40/2 but i miss the wider aperture of the CV from time to time. I would not like to use it in low light exclusively like my CV 35/1.4 though, the latter suffering from focus shift at f/2.8 and slower apertures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piblondin Posted January 10, 2010 Author Share #8 Posted January 10, 2010 Thanks for the replies, everyone! I post before I go to bed and wake up with help and answers. This forum is great! If I go to the store and am able to get other lenses in the 35-50mm range to focus properly, can I safely assume that the problem lies with the lens and not the camera? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie_O Posted January 10, 2010 Share #9 Posted January 10, 2010 If I go to the store and am able to get other lenses in the 35-50mm range to focus properly, can I safely assume that the problem lies with the lens and not the camera? I think you're safe reaching that conclusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piblondin Posted January 10, 2010 Author Share #10 Posted January 10, 2010 Thanks, Maggie! I'll post any updates here once I have them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piblondin Posted January 10, 2010 Author Share #11 Posted January 10, 2010 Enrico, I vaguely recall having read about some issues with UV/IR cut filters fitting on the Leica 40/2. Are there any? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted January 10, 2010 Share #12 Posted January 10, 2010 None, actually it should mount a different kind of filters, differnt in the screw, but a normal E39 UV/IR filter sticks on my lens since I bought it and the rubber hood sticks on the filter. No problems at all, it perfectly works. You just have to take care not to screw the filter too tight, just stop when it grips. The Cron-C 40 is an outstanding lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piblondin Posted January 11, 2010 Author Share #13 Posted January 11, 2010 I went to the camera store earlier today, but unfortunately got there just before closing. I was able to pick up some film and a rocket blower, however. I also tested out my M8 with a 50mm Summicron. Keep in mind that I was in the store, hand-holding my camera and approximating the angle as best I could given my height and the height of the counter. The first image below is the focus test with the Summicron. The second is the test with my Nokton. Because I the letters in the focus test sheet are so small, I wanted to try something else, hence the third picture below. I stacked up a few books. Each book is approximately one inch to one-and-a-half inches further away from the camera than the one below it. I.e. as you go from bottom to top, the books get further away from the camera. I focused specifically on "MILAN" in Milan Kundera's name. However, it looks like the spine of the football book that's above it is the one that's in proper focus. Note that these are not quite 100% crops because of the forum filesize limits. Is it my camera or the lens? This all seems inconclusive to me and suggests that I'll need to do some more testing. What do you all think? Thanks again for the help! I'm very anxious to be out and shooting with this camera (in focus)! One odd thing is that I also tried the focus test with the Nokton while holding the camera vertically instead of horizontally, and the result was much better. Why would that be? Enrico, I stopped by a darkroom I use that's also a Voigtlander dealer, and they happened to have a 40mm Summicron in stock! However, I couldn't buy it because they're waiting for the owner to price it. Hopefully, I will be able to pick it up later in the week! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/109190-just-got-an-m8-back-focus-w-nokton-40-what-to-do/?do=findComment&comment=1182822'>More sharing options...
epand56 Posted January 11, 2010 Share #14 Posted January 11, 2010 The first image below is the focus test with the Summicron. The second is the test with my Nokton. Piblondin, if in the first picture you focused on the "focus here" line, then seems to me that your camera is ok and even that Summicron is. In the second picture I recognize the behaviour of the Nokton as it was on my camera. It could be a great lens but geting the focus where you want is very dificult with it because of the weird focus shift. The same happens to me with the Ultron 28/2 that is almost unusable at wide apertures. If you can get your hands on the Cron 40/2 you will not be disappointed. If you look for Graeme's pictures on the forum you will see how it performs. Graeme only uses that lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreyg Posted January 11, 2010 Share #15 Posted January 11, 2010 I had some trouble with the CV Nokton 40/1.4 as well, and sold it. Much happier with a Summicron 50/2 - which is an absolute wonder on the M8. Also Sean Reid pointed out the OOF on the Nokton was pretty harsh, and once I noticed that, it was curtains. But I did get some good 10-20' shots in low light with it which I'm very happy with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piblondin Posted January 11, 2010 Author Share #16 Posted January 11, 2010 Hi everyone, I cross-posted this issue on another forum and someone there suggested that I test the accuracy of the rangefinder. It seems to be pretty good distance-wise. I just did the mirror test where I put a piece of tape on the mirror, set the focus ring to 1m, got the tape in focus then moved the focus ring to get the camera in focus at 2m. One thing that I noticed as I've tried to figure out the problem is that vertical alignment of the rangefinder isn't exact, although it's very, very close. I mean, I don't ever feel like I can't align the images or that I'm seeing double...until I tried something a little more precise. Earlier today I taped up a piece of 8.5x11" paper with 12-point font printed on it and tried to focus from a distance of about 0.8m. I was able to read the text in the rangefinder. However, the text wasn't as sharp when I lined it up in the center patch, no matter how much I tried. It appears that the phantom image in the patch is slightly--and I mean barely, just barely--higher than the actual image in the rangefinder. Is that any sort of cause for concern, something I should have the dealer fix? Or is that just the normal amount of error to expect from a rangefinder device no matter what? Thanks again for all the help and apologies for all my troubles. I want to get things right, but am not entirely sure how to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 11, 2010 Share #17 Posted January 11, 2010 ...It appears that the phantom image in the patch is slightly--and I mean barely, just barely--higher than the actual image in the rangefinder. Is that any sort of cause for concern, something I should have the dealer fix? Or is that just the normal amount of error to expect from a rangefinder device no matter what?... Just a slight vertical misalignment of your rangefinder. Can be fixed through DIY easily with the R-D1 but less so with the M8 AFAIK. Not a problem for Leica or a good repairman though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted January 11, 2010 Share #18 Posted January 11, 2010 One thing that I noticed as I've tried to figure out the problem is that vertical alignment of the rangefinder isn't exact, although it's very, very close. Hello, Piblondin, if you think you have a vertical misallignement of the range finder, that'a a completely different story. When I bought my M8 two years ago, I had the RF vertically misalligned. Any of the camera in my stock had it according with other two friends that bought other two in the same stock. I did not know that immediately, because it is difficult to realize you have that problem shooting with short lenses up to 50mm. I discovered I was vertically misalligned when I bought my Elmarit 90mm. On the long distance it was impossible to me to focus the lens since it was focusing several meter in front of the point I was focusing on. In the beginning I thought it was the lens, but mounting it on a brand new M8 it was perfectly working. I did this test at a Leica dealer in Paris and he told me the RF was misalligned. Sent the camera to Solms and when it was back anything was fine. I suggest you to put a big 90 on your camera and try to focus on distant object. Hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piblondin Posted January 11, 2010 Author Share #19 Posted January 11, 2010 I took my camera to a local camera tech and he confirmed that the rangefinder is slightly misaligned, vertically. However, he also said that that should not be related to the back focusing issue, which is likely the result of the lens, not the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted January 11, 2010 Share #20 Posted January 11, 2010 I took my camera to a local camera tech and he confirmed that the rangefinder is slightly misaligned, vertically. However, he also said that that should not be related to the back focusing issue, which is likely the result of the lens, not the camera. Yes, but the RF misallignement can even influence the behaviour of other lenses, so I suggest you to have your camera fixed up. Anyway many M-lenses have some focus shift problem, even some very expensive ones such like the Lux 35/1.4 asph. It is the pleasures of shooting rangefinder... ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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