50mm Summilux and Sonnar

[lct]

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Others know only 2 versions. See http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/16684-50mm-cron-50mm-lux-pre-asph.html

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[adan]

As to Summilux 50 versions, it depends on whether your are talking optics (2 versions, 1959-61, and 1961-2004) - or cosmetics (in which case, don't forget the gold and platinum versions )

 

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[lct]

The latest version has more than cosmetic differences hence my preference for 3 versions. YMMV. About 'cosmetics' see also the nice SM version # 11621.

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[adli]

Others know only 2 versions. See http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/16684-50mm-cron-50mm-lux-pre-asph.html

 

Well, as I said, the optics changed in 1961, but the version with the new optics were available both in crome and later in black, not only in black as you stated.

[lct]

Well, as I said, the optics changed in 1961, but the version with the new optics were available both in crome and later in black, not only in black as you stated.

AFAIK '2nd version' # 11114 (1966-1995) existed only in black. The lens of the 'Traveller kit' from 1994 was chome though but it was a special version. Would you know its code number BTW?

[adli]

AFAIK '2nd version' # 11114 (1966-1995) existed only in black. The lens of the 'Traveller kit' from 1994 was chome though but it was a special version. Would you know its code number BTW?

 

If you take a look at this page Leica 50mm f/1.4 SUMMILUX (1960-2004) or if you read Erwin Puts' Leica lens compendium, you will find that the '2nd version of the lens was introduced in 61-62 in crome.

 

It was produced in crome from 1961 to 1968 and then in black from 1969. Both the crome and the black had model code 11114. I don't know where you got the year 1966 from?

 

The model produced from 1959-1961 also had model code 11114, but it had the old optical design.

 

A new model with new optical design was introduced in 1992, available in both silver (11856) and black (11868). This design was discontinued in 2004 when the aspherical lens came. Only the the two latest designs (from 1992) can be six-bit coded for M8 and M9.

[lct]

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Never seen a "new formula" prior to 1966 AFAIC. Heard of rumors that some optical changes occurred circa 1961 or 1962 but this has never been acknowledged by Leica if memory serves. So officially at least the second version 11114 appeared in 1966 and was only black chrome until 1995 IMHO.

[peter_n]

A new model with new optical design was introduced in 1992, available in both silver (11856) and black (11868). This design was discontinued in 2004 when the aspherical lens came. Only the the two latest designs (from 1992) can be six-bit coded for M8 and M9.

I think the optics were the same in the last one, just different coatings. I use a black paint version of the lens, Leica product nr. 11623.

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[lct]

I think the optics were the same in the last one, just different coatings. I use a black paint version of the lens, Leica product nr. 11623...

The 11623 (1rst pic) is a latest pre-asph lens like regular 11868 (black chrome) & 11856 (silver) or the titanium 11869.

The 11113 (2nd pic) is a black paint v1 from 1960 or so.

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[adli]

Dennis Laney says in THE LEICA COLLECTORS GUIDE, p. 138:

"1961: Completely new optical design, based on new glasses

and employing seven elements with the rear four as two cemented pairs, but

no change in mount. Curiously, Leitz did not acknowledge this change until

1966..."

[lct]

Dennis Laney says in THE LEICA COLLECTORS GUIDE, p. 138:

"1961: Completely new optical design, based on new glasses and employing seven elements with the rear four as two cemented pairs, but no change in mount. Curiously, Leitz did not acknowledge this change until 1966..."

Don't remember where my data come from but i agree on 1966 as being the official launch year of the 2nd version.

[adan]

Adli:

 

You say, "A new model with new optical design was introduced in 1992...."

 

In the page you link to , Ken Rockwell says, "This review applies to all LEICA 50mm f/1.4 SUMMILUX lenses made from 1961 through 2004 for the M cameras. They all have the same optics."

 

Can you clarify and give a source?

[adli]

Adli:

 

You say, "A new model with new optical design was introduced in 1992...."

 

In the page you link to , Ken Rockwell says, "This review applies to all LEICA 50mm f/1.4 SUMMILUX lenses made from 1961 through 2004 for the M cameras. They all have the same optics."

 

Can you clarify and give a source?

 

Sorry, that was typo, the optics was changed in 1961 and 2004. The model was changed in 1992, but with the same optics.

[lct]

I cant' seem to recall what happened in 1992. Could you please elaborate on this point?

[adli]

I cant' seem to recall what happened in 1992. Could you please elaborate on this point?

 

Try read the link i quoted. I don't need to elaborate it as it is posted earlier in this thread.

[Mauribix]

I am tired of waiting for the Leica 50 1.4, one will never know when the lens will hit the street. My dealers say earliest 2nd quarter this year, at least after X1 delivery.

 

What's the closest I could get? What about Zeiss 50 1.5? I read a few reviews that the Sonnar is obviously not as good as the Summilux, but given the price, it has far greater performance-price index.

 

For those M9 users who have experience with both of these lenses, what is your take?

 

Tategoi, as many have already explained, the Zeiss 50 1.5 is a totally different lens, it's a "classic" design... I'd rather suggest you the CV Nokton 50 1.5, that's an Aspherical and "modern" design, some may prefer it to the Leica.

I still think the Leica is absolutely the best 50 ever made. Gorgeous in every situation.

BTW, where are you located?

 

I know of a couple of dealers in Europe who have that lens on stock, and a friend of mine is tryin' to sell his one.

 

Let me know,

 

Maurizio

[wizard]

I cant' seem to recall what happened in 1992. Could you please elaborate on this point?

 

Closest focusing distance decreased to 0.7m, built-in sliding lens hood, filter thread changed from E43 to E46, I guess that's what he is refering to.

 

Andy

[tategoi]

Tategoi, as many have already explained, the Zeiss 50 1.5 is a totally different lens, it's a "classic" design... I'd rather suggest you the CV Nokton 50 1.5, that's an Aspherical and "modern" design, some may prefer it to the Leica.

I still think the Leica is absolutely the best 50 ever made. Gorgeous in every situation.

BTW, where are you located?

 

I know of a couple of dealers in Europe who have that lens on stock, and a friend of mine is tryin' to sell his one.

 

Let me know,

 

Maurizio

 

Yeah, all the comments here had been very helpful, and I think I would very much prefer the modern and sharper ASPH one. If going into Voigtlander, I thought the Nokton 1.1 would provide me with more fun with its wide aperture, while waiting for the 50 Lux. But the Nokton is BIG, so I am not sure.

 

I am located in Singapore, and thanks for your offer, but I prefer to buy it locally just in case if anything amiss I can always go back to my dealer. Again, I appreciate your help.

 

Back to the pre-ASPH 50 that I was offered, its a Version 2 with s/n 222xxxx.

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[Jerry_R]

The Zeiss Sonnar is designed to be an old-school lens - "dreamy" at f/1.5 [...] "The C-SONNAR T* 1.5/50 ZM is a very special lens; based on a classical lens design concept from the 1930´s. .... This lens ‘draws’ your subject in a fine, flattering manner and is therefore ideally suited for portraiture. It renders a sharpness that is slightly rounded, being less aggressive than in contemporary lens designs....This lens design exhibits some additional effects.... [...]The special features of the C-SONNAR T* 1.5/50 ZM are best used in emotional, artistic, narrative images, portraits or atmospheric landscapes.

Doesn't it sound like an ADVANTAGE? More close to old analog pleasure look like, not current artifical digital one.

 

Here you can see, how Sonnar beats Summilux in terms of sharpness: THE ZEISS ZM 50 SONNAR 1.5 LENS REVIEW

Do you object that article results?

 

For documentation or technical subjects CARL ZEISS recommends to stop down the lens at least to f/5.6 or to use the PLANAR T* 2/50 ZM lens."

As the LL reviewer said - "Who buys an f/1.5 lens to use at f/5.6?"

For me it is obvious, that for "technical, documentation" purpose I use even f/8, not f/2

[jaapv]

I would like to point out that Steve's test was done on an M8.2, which cuts off the corners and edges, where the real difference between the lenses will become apparent. Having said that, there is nothing negative to be said about the optical quality of Zeiss lenses. Steve has got it exactly right in his review, down to the wild and swirly bokeh of the Sonnar, which closely matches the old Leitz Summarit 50/1.5. Personally I would spent 350$ on a Summarit instead of considerably more on the Sonnar. One problem would be the different colour rendering, which would demand a bit more PP effort if the photographs have to match images taken with Leica lenses.