Guest Essemmlee Posted January 8, 2010 Share #1 Posted January 8, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have, over the past few days, spoken to some of the UK's main dealers about the lack of M9's (and the Lux 50/1.4). They are, almost to a man, fed up with not knowing when the next delivery will be; not being able to satisfy customer orders; turning away potential customers, and some of them laughed when I asked for a Lux 50/1.4. I quote from one of them - "Leica are becoming a joke supplier", "an annoyance" "a PITA". A large UK dealer said that if I gave them all the cost of an M9 I still couldn't guarantee delivery until at least the end of March, if then. They just have no idea. Another said the M10 may be announced before the deliveries of the outstanding M9's were complete. You have to feel for them a little bit. Alright, they may have your money, but the interest rate is poor anyway. They are becoming very negative. One of them mentioned that when Leica turned up for a sales day they didn't bring the S2 or the X1, both of which were on the agenda for the day. I wonder what the longer term effects of this may be as I become more enamored with my 1DS3 and 85/1.2L. It can't just be the dealers and me. Or is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Hi Guest Essemmlee, Take a look here M9 - Dealer Viewpoint???. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
novice9 Posted January 8, 2010 Share #2 Posted January 8, 2010 Add to that the razor-thin dealer markup in this industry -- i believe 16% in the case of Leica, at least in the US -- if the manufacturer can't even supply the goods, whats the point of carrying them, more of a pita than anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted January 8, 2010 Share #3 Posted January 8, 2010 I would assume the markup for standard P&S cameras etc. is even less so selling one M9 + lens @ about 10k$ would equal selling about 20 or more P&S type camera's. The dealers annoyance may be mainly that they see an opportunity for some (much needed) income not being materialised. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jalLee2001 Posted January 8, 2010 Share #4 Posted January 8, 2010 It is the same in the states. As far as the lux 1.4, I have been looking for one for over one month! What is going on at the factory? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan States Posted January 8, 2010 Share #5 Posted January 8, 2010 Panasonic is a giagantic mega corporation and they can't seem to keep their products in stock either...Wonder why? Because the lesson learned with the LX3 was that under-supply keeps demand high and prices stable. If you wan't to buy a product from a boutique company like Leica you will face a wait when they introduce new product. The flip side for the user is higher used values over time. If they set up facility to produce "enough" M9's for the first 6 months of demand they would later have to do major cuts as the demand slackened and the used market filled with lower priced product. Dealers will gripe no matter what the scenario...only an unlimited supply of gold coins will keep them truly happy:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 8, 2010 Share #6 Posted January 8, 2010 I would assume the markup for standard P&S cameras etc. is even less so selling one M9 + lens @ about 10k$ would equal selling about 20 or more P&S type camera's. The dealers annoyance may be mainly that they see an opportunity for some (much needed) income not being materialised. I agree : to have at risk a good sale opportunity for the issue of delivery is always annoying in any field... achieving a satisfactory balance is always difficult when you are in a (anyway) tiny market like is the one of Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTrunck Posted January 8, 2010 Share #7 Posted January 8, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Customers are upset. Customers are questioning what dealers told them about delivery dates and product availabilities, which have turned out to be entirely false. This weighs heavily on dealer credibilities. I"m giving my dealer the benefit of the doubt, as I think Leica can't deliver and has no business/marketing communication skills, and is not supporting the dealers. The entire Leica M series experience is NOT GOOD at this time. Jim http://www.jimtrunck.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
novice9 Posted January 8, 2010 Share #8 Posted January 8, 2010 No doubt, Leica wants to sell as much product as it can and doubtless is doing all it can to meet demand given whatever operating constraints it has. Having said that, the company is unnecessarily and seriously impairing its reputation and good will by failing to communicate to their dealers and customers any useful content whatsoever upon which to develop expectations and base decisions. I am not sure why it is that Leica does not exhibit greater sensitivity to this issue, but I can say that in general European companies are far less attuned to CRM issues than are American and even Asian companies. It is certainly tempting to ascribe a measure of arrogance here, though I have no idea if this is what is involved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_mcdermott Posted January 8, 2010 Share #9 Posted January 8, 2010 The entire Leica M series experience is NOT GOOD at this time. Really? Not to nitpick but my Leica M series experience is just fine at the moment. Have the delays hurt your enjoyment of what equipment you have? Which isn't to say things couldn't be done better with supply and with monitoring expectations of customers and dealers, but please... Every dealer I've spoken with has been quite forthcoming about the situation, even if that means saying 'I don't know.' Ideal, far from it, but honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted January 8, 2010 Share #10 Posted January 8, 2010 The entire Leica M series experience is NOT GOOD at this time. Are you a Leica M user, Jim? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglouis Posted January 8, 2010 Share #11 Posted January 8, 2010 Really? Not to nitpick but my Leica M series experience is just fine at the moment. Have the delays hurt your enjoyment of what equipment you have? So is mine. I am finding it hard to go back to my M8 having enjoyed going back to a film M so much... and no worries about whether or not an M9 is going to turn up or be free of problems. I highly recommend it as a solution to M9 woes... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTrunck Posted January 8, 2010 Share #12 Posted January 8, 2010 Matt, Andy I own Leica glass. I own Leica accessories. I am waiting for my M9 to be delivered. I am waiting for my 50 summilux to be delivered. I decided not to buy any more lenses until I had the M9; and now the prices of the lenses have increased; substantially in the ones I was interested in purchasing. Obvious Matt is a happy camper since he has one or more M bodies and lenses (apparently). I am not happy. I would not buy an 8 or 8.2 and I will never go back to film. The M9 is what I wanted and am waiting for. And a lot of money spent on glass, etc. is not being used, due to the excessive wait times and lack of communication on Leica's part. Just to be clear on another point, I am happy with my dealer, I have confidence in the dealer, and I do not think my dealer made any deliberate misrepresentations on prior purchases nor the ordering of the M9. Obviously, delivery times were mistaken for the prior reasons given. Jim PS - And I will continue to purchase from my dealer in the future. http://www.jimtrunck.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 8, 2010 Share #13 Posted January 8, 2010 If you read the Ken Rockwell lllf review he states that after its launch it was so popular that it was on back order for two years! Seems having to wait for a Leica is nothing new. Maybe Leica are getting to the bottom of the cracked sensor issue before sending out more cameras. People moan about them sending product out with faults that should have been resolved first. Then more people complain that they are fed up waiting and want their new toy now. Can't win. If you don't have your M9 next week, but maybe next month, just enjoy the anticipation. It's not that crucial is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 9, 2010 Share #14 Posted January 9, 2010 They are building all the cameras they are able to - 50 a day. What do people expect? Subcontract to Red-Flag cameras in China?. If you want a mass-product now, look elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted January 9, 2010 Share #15 Posted January 9, 2010 Sookie Lah Lahs... Who cares what dealers think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankA Posted January 9, 2010 Share #16 Posted January 9, 2010 Add to that the razor-thin dealer markup in this industry -- i believe 16% in the case of Leica, at least in the US -- if the manufacturer can't even supply the goods, whats the point of carrying them, more of a pita than anything. I don't think 16% is razor thin. It is quite good for a retailer. Compare that to grocery stores in the 1% to 3% range. That is razor thin. However, if you have no cameras to sell at 16% markup, that makes razor thin look pretty good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted January 9, 2010 Share #17 Posted January 9, 2010 Whilst I fully understand the need for carefully managing supply & demand to keep values high, plus the limited production capacity of a small company such as Leica, I do think that they need to hire a decent PR firm to do a MUCH better job of communicating with it's dealers, customers and the prospective purchasers alike. If we were to be able to see a note from Leica explaining something along the lines of 'due to the significant unexpected demand for 50 'lux we have made this a priority and are striving to clear the backlog by {insert action here}', then I think that a lot of the negativity about delays and low availability could be avoided. Leica corporate communication is abysmal and obviously not working, based on the repeated unhappy threads such as this one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 9, 2010 Share #18 Posted January 9, 2010 In truth it is possible to get hold of an M9 with only a short wait - at least that's the position here in the UK. In my experience, dealer waiting lists are pretty 'flexible'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted January 9, 2010 Share #19 Posted January 9, 2010 It is the same in the states. As far as the lux 1.4, I have been looking for one for over one month! What is going on at the factory? christmas and new year? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell Posted January 9, 2010 Share #20 Posted January 9, 2010 Well of course everything is delayed. Leica has their hands full with too many products at the same time(X1, S2, cine lenses) in addition to the M line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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