Most Likely New Lenses

[novice9]

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I'm wondering what new m-lenses folks think are most likely to emerge in 2010. I know folks believe a 35 lux is likely (though I'm not convinced on this one). How about a 75 lux? That's the one I'd love to see. Or how about a 90 lux, would such a lense be viable? I'd love to have more speed in a portrait lense (don't love what i've seen from the discontinued 75 lux). What is the likelihood that Leica introduces no new lenses for a year or two given they released quite a few new ones over the past year and bit?

[marknorton]

For the record, the singular of "lenses" is "lens", not "lense".

 

As for new lenses, the most obvious hole is a 28mm Summilux, though many would agree the 35mm Summilux is overdue for a rework.

[J_Thompson]

If I were a gambling man, I would bet on a new 50mm Summicron ASPH, as both the 50mm Noctilux and the Summilux lenses are now aspherical. This would seem to be the most logical move for Leica, especially in view of the full-frame M9 introduction and the 50mm being a "normal" focal length. Anybody for starting a "next lens" pool?

[Bo_Lorentzen]

John,

 

A completely reworked 50mm cron, could be a very sexy lens. don't know if I'm up for betting on that one..

 

Pretty sure a 35 lux seems due, to resolve the in-consistency with the current version on digital.

 

And yes the 28 lux is due, there is 10's of thousands M8 cameras out there, wanting a fast 35mm crop factor lux.

 

.

[adan]

1) Originally (in 1982), Leitz Canada tried to create a 90 Summilux - too big (blocked the RF patch) - thus the creation of the 75 in the first place. I think a new version of the 75 f/1.4 is a possibility (having discovered the joys of the old version on my M9). In its day, it was the heaviest and most expensive M lens, and I suspect a succesor will continue that pattern.

 

2) One of Peter Karbe's first projects for Leica as a junior designer was designing an ASPH 50 'cron. Turned out that to actually improve on the current 'cron significantly, it cost far too much - but it became the basis for the 50 f/1.4 ASPH design (and eventually landed Karbe the job of chief designer). Leica needs the 50 'cron to remain cheap enough to be a "starter" lens.

 

Of course, Leica has prototyped and discarded many lens ideas over the years - only to return to some of them decades later. E.G., ELCAN (the military arm of E. Leitz CANada) produced an R version 75 f/2 long before the M version, and there are some 90 Nocti's produced for X-ray machines, with a few converted for M use: leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Pages - The Leica History - Page 2. A 28 'cron was also attempted in the 1980's - but shelved due to poor performance.

 

3) I doubt Leica is going to design anything further with the 1.33x crop in mind. That's history.

 

(Ooops - was gonna say more - but minor family crisis just turned up. I'd love it is a new 35 f/1.4 came out - lots of nice used ones would hit the market!)

[giordano]

Leica needs the 50 'cron to remain cheap enough to be a "starter" lens.

 

Not with the Summarits in the line-up.

 

3) I doubt Leica is going to design anything further with the 1.33x crop in mind.

 

Anything further? surely the only thing they designed for the 1.33 crop was the M8 itself.

[Sully]

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Summilux 28mm 1.4 asph. and 16mm 2.8mm Elmarit asph. for M series and screw on 90mm lens element for X 1.

 

Ciao, Sully

[GlennB]

Not that it makes much difference for me at this time finance wise, but I would love to see leica make a 24mm f2 asph lens (that would have to be be more affordable than the f1.4 version).

[Bo_Lorentzen]

Andy,

 

You misunderstood me, (maybe) I meant, that the 28lux maybe can be thought to have a large market, because there already IS a installed user base, both would I buy one for my M9, but I would also have even more interested in getting one for my M8, simply because the lens is close to my favorite 35mm film fov.

 

I did not mean "designing for 1.3x" but I do think Leica will understand that some products will appeal to several user-groups. being able to sell a standard lens to a a lot of installed owners probably will not be overlooked. a 28lux might very well be the luxury item of indulgence for buyers of used M8's (maybe)

 

That said... I still want the new super 35mm lux. could not care less about the 75lux as I already love the one I have.

 

.

[adan]

John G:

 

Sorry, f/2.5 for a normal or a sole lens is what my 1959 Ricoh had - not a serious aperture for a normal lens (X1 and S2 notwithstanding). In the range 35-75mm, f/2.0 is a bare necessity.

 

I doubt Leica would have bothered with the WATE except for the M8's crop requiring something in the line to reach 21mm and 24mm equivalents.

 

Bo - to pick up where I left off - If I had been Leica, I'd have done a 28 f/1.4 first (and maybe the 21, for the "Noctilux " factor - "The only 21 f/1.4 in the world") - and then waited to see if there was a real demand for the in-between lens (24mm).

 

I hear you on the "old" 75 'lux - happy with mine, and a new one is likely to be 3x what I paid.

 

Personally, I think Leica should be looking at what lenses could be dropped from the line. Three 24s (or four, if Glenn gets his Summicron) seems a bit excessive for the size of the company. Especially as they have their plate full filling out the S2 lens line right now.

[scott kirkpatrick]

The 28/2.8 looks as if it was designed with the 1.33x expansion factor in mind. It is noticeably less sharp wide open in the outer corners of the full frame (but that issue goes away by f/4). And less telecentric than any of the more recent designs.

 

The recent price increases suggest that Leica is interested in getting extra revenue from the present 35/1.4, not in clearing its shelves. And the 28/2.0 A didn't get a price increase, so maybe there is a Summilux coming in that focal length.

 

scott

[novice9]

And the 28/2.0 A didn't get a price increase, so maybe there is a Summilux coming in that focal length.

 

scott

 

This would make sense, I would think, from a design perspective. I would imagine the lense would be a simple step from the 24 1.4 and therefore involve a relatively minimal investment on Leica's part to add to the line up. I'm still hoping for a faster portrait lens than currently exists.

[lars_bergquist]

21 and 24mm Summicrons would have been far more practical lenses -- practical for users, practical for buyers AND for Leica's marketing -- than the present Summiluxes. The 21 has the wow factor, but that's in the specs, mostly -- the actual pictures do not look particularly 'wowy' (yes, I have tried the lens). And the performance of the 24 is not exactly stellar, say user reports. But now those lenses are there, and that means that 21 and 24mm Summicrons will probably not see the light of day or night in the foreseeable future. A pity.

 

What I do suspect is in the offing is a 21mm Elmar (and a gradual and v-e-r-y discreet phasing out of the 21 and 24 Elmarit lenses). For I agree that three lenses of the same focal length is economically a very dubious business. What a cleanup of the line at 50mm would entail, is fertile ground for speculation. I do also think that the days of the 90mm Macro are reckoned.

 

And why are they making a 135mm f:3.4 lens, when they say that you must stop it down to 6.3 to ensure accurate focusing?

 

The old man from the Days of the Berg-Elmar

[lars_bergquist]

Some people are dreaming of a 'faster portrait lens', meaning a 90mm Summilux. Now, apart from the sheer size, and the likely masking of the rangefinder, have you thought about focusing with a literally paper-thin d.o.f.?

 

I shot the picture below with the 1:0.95 Noctilux wide open. The focus is exactly on the gentleman's near spectacle frame (and on the LEICALEICALEICA pattern on his exquisite tie) but NOT on the far spec frame. Yes, this lens can be handled, with care and an unmoving subject. But would you trust yourself with a hypothetical 50mm Noctilux 1:0.7? For that lens would have a depth of field roughly equivalent to a 90mm Summilux (or a 1:1 75mm). I wouldn't, son.

 

The speed lens we need is a 35mm Summilux that is reliable across the entire range of apertures. That and of course the splendid 50mm Summilux we already have. Get real.

 

The old man from the Age of the 9cm Elmar

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[batmobile]

I agree with Lars on the 21/24 luxes. With the M9 on the way it was an odd decision but perhaps helped shift old M8s?

 

I cant say I see much point in updating the summicron, esp if it entails higher prices. Great 50s are easy to find at a fraction of the price. Even selling the summarit was tough! Then there is the planar.

 

A new 35 lux, 28 lux, and 21 elmar would be nice to see. If Zeiss produces a 25 f4 things could be interesting for the new 24 elmar tho. The 21 4.5 is stellar but there is no comparable small compact 25.

 

My main hope would be an extension of cheaper, smaller, well made alternatives to the compact lenses of CV and Zeiss. A 28 elmar 3.8?

[lars_bergquist]

I think the need for high speed is (a) reduced nowadays -- Summilux lenses are nice to have at times, but not exactly a necessity -- and ( most acute in the bread-and-butter mid focal lengths. There, slow lenses are also slow sellers. The 50mm Summarit is not a fast-moving item, and a 28 slower than the present Elmarit would probably positively stick to the shelves.

 

The old man from the Age of the 2.8cm Hektor

[giordano]

Sorry, f/2.5 for a normal or a sole lens is what my 1959 Ricoh had - not a serious aperture for a normal lens (X1 and S2 notwithstanding). In the range 35-75mm, f/2.0 is a bare necessity.

 

Leica clearly don't understand this, or they would never have introduced the 35 and 50 Summarits.

[pgk]

I would have thought that a 28 'lux would filll up an enviable line up of fast focal lengths which no other manufacturer can compete with. To me it is the obvious 'next' lens, perhaps followed by a 75 lux. I now have both 50 and 35 asph 'luxes and whilst the 35 may not be perfect, it remains an extremely good lens, so from a marketing point of view and as a gap filler, surely a 28 'lux must be on the cards?

[luigi bertolotti]

A new Summicron 50 is probable, for me: M9 makes this focal more important, and given the price of the Lux and the Summarit, I think they have "room" to make it a BIT more costly than the present, with some pluses in front like asph or even apo-asph.

I agree also that Elmarit 28 was made with M8 in mind... but is too young to be replaced, and a costly Summilux is more probable imho.

Always thinking of M9... the superwide range is well covered... there is the 18 whose present issues can pheraps be soved in firmware... but the WATE is a very costly oddity... I wouldn't be surprised if a 14-15 around f4 or 3,8 would arrive.

135 has also became an important focal with FF... but is difficult to imagine something better positioned than the present Telyt... unless they decide to afford the "risk" of a goggled lens which maybe would be regarded not favourably by part of the potential customers.

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[christer]

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