pnoble Posted December 22, 2009 Share #1 Posted December 22, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) This is according Leica Rumors. If so, we M9 owners are in a much more exclusive club than Porsche 911 owners (~ 7,000 a quarter) and for well under 10% of the investment! I should have instead bought two M9!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Hi pnoble, Take a look here Leica Produces 4,000 M9!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted December 22, 2009 Share #2 Posted December 22, 2009 Even in this forum it has been spoken of a 50 units per day production... which is consistent with around 4000 till now. And... Leicistas have always been a more exclusive club than Porschistas... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 22, 2009 Share #3 Posted December 22, 2009 That is indeed an interesting tidbit. Let's consider that, according to Jonathan Eastland, M6 production used to be 8000-10.000 a year. this is about double. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozenace Posted December 22, 2009 Share #4 Posted December 22, 2009 That really depends on if you count the D-lux and C-lux as part of the club... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 22, 2009 Share #5 Posted December 22, 2009 This is according Leica Rumors. If so, we M9 owners are in a much more exclusive club than Porsche 911 owners (~ 7,000 a quarter) and for well under 10% of the investment! I should have instead bought two M9!!Instead of two Porsche 911? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted December 22, 2009 Share #6 Posted December 22, 2009 One Porsche and one M9 would do it for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted December 22, 2009 Share #7 Posted December 22, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... not to mention the new Porsche Panamera... Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted December 22, 2009 Share #8 Posted December 22, 2009 That is indeed an interesting tidbit. Let's consider that, according to Jonathan Eastland, M6 production used to be 8000-10.000 a year. this is about double. The problem is the production of M6s may last for ten years... with minor changes or improvements, but the M9 will be in production, how long? Two years? I doubt it, two years is too much time. Leica has to invest much money in a new M camera with the S2 electronics and software. The M9 provides resources and time. It is good, but not a long term consolidated trend. This high volume production will decrease in a year or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rennsport Posted December 22, 2009 Share #9 Posted December 22, 2009 Interesting numbers. If I can choose, I'd have two (different) 911s tho. LOL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted December 22, 2009 Share #10 Posted December 22, 2009 … This high volume production will decrease in a year or so. Your right which is why Leica then have to make a M10 if it is to survive in business. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 22, 2009 Share #11 Posted December 22, 2009 The problem is of course that the digital M is a rather ripe product by now, even in the digital age. The introduction of the Maestro technology might be a new product cycle, or the introduction of a weathersealed line. I think Leica was wise to introduce the X1. As that product develops it might take over a bit of the product renewal pressure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted December 22, 2009 Share #12 Posted December 22, 2009 Actually, the high production will probably decline as soon as the swamp of back/pre-orders is reduced, so that the staff "borrowed" from S2 and X1 production (causing delays in those lines) can get back to their day jobs. M6 production was as high as 12,000 per year in some years - 1,000 per month. So assuming Leica was building M9s prior to 9/9, 4,000 in almost 4 months is not especially high. I have my doubts about a significant replacement for the M9 before photokina 2012 - but then, Leica surprised me with how fast they were able to get to full-frame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nryn Posted December 22, 2009 Share #13 Posted December 22, 2009 In general I despise it when people start pretending to know what's best for Leica's business, so take the following as an idea, not a prescription I really liked the message they crafted around the M8: you pay a premium for a Leica, but you can continue to upgrade it, making it a relatively good investment as well as a photographic companion through the years (rather than a disposable). A large part of me jumping on the Leica bandwagon was because I wanted to get out of the camera market and concentrate more on the photographic experience. I appreciated a company that seemed to be interested in the same. I would very much appreciate it if Leica nailed the M digital body down: soft buttons and maybe even a soft knob (see ISO control thread), then basically could swap out the digital insides (sensor, processors, camera logic, etc.) every few years or so. I'm sure it's much more complicated than that, but if Leica is going to survive, I highly doubt they can do it on the M and S2 alone, and they'll have to diversify their production resources across several lines and/or markets. Standardizing their bodies around replaceable guts might help owners feel like they're putting money into something which will be around a while. And it could make the relationship between revenue and camera bodies a bit more liquid. But only Leica knows what business they want to be in. With an M8, turned into an M8.u, and now an M9, clearly my "out of the camera market" mentality hasn't really panned out, and Leica has benefitted as a result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted December 22, 2009 Share #14 Posted December 22, 2009 The problem is the production of M6s may last for ten years... with minor changes or improvements, but the M9 will be in production, how long? Two years? I doubt it, two years is too much time. Leica has to invest much money in a new M camera with the S2 electronics and software. The M9 provides resources and time. It is good, but not a long term consolidated trend. This high volume production will decrease in a year or so. But if we go back to Porsche economics you might say the M8 was the early 911, with a few things that needed sorting, the M9 the short lived '72-'73 2.7 RS lightweight (because you don't get much technology for your money), and an M10 or M11 would be the modern Porsche 911, with all the comfortable bits like air con, traction control, electric windows, etc. This gives me hope when I look at the price of a 1973 RS lightweight compared to a current '911'........ Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnoble Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share #15 Posted December 22, 2009 One Porsche and one M9 would do it for me Me too. A silver 911 and a black M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnoble Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share #16 Posted December 22, 2009 The problem is the production of M6s may last for ten years... with minor changes or improvements, but the M9 will be in production, how long? Two years? I doubt it, two years is too much time. Leica has to invest much money in a new M camera with the S2 electronics and software. The M9 provides resources and time. It is good, but not a long term consolidated trend. This high volume production will decrease in a year or so. I feel sorry for us Leica owners in so much as an outdated model is never fun after such an investment. And for Leica who will be under pressure to show something new at Photokina. Porsche could take four years to facelift their current 911 (an upgrade somewhere between M8 > M8.2 and M8 > M9) without losing market share and a fully new model will arrive about seven years after the current model was introduced. The Leica M series and the Porsche 911 are remarkably similar in many ways: truly iconic, world class designs that have endured against all odds for half a century (911 - 46 years, M - 55 years), exquisitely refined almost beyond rationale in a world of constant change. Otherwise dispassionate reviewers (and owners) lapse into poetry to describe their unfettered feelings for these objects of desire and wax lyrical over the unique quality of the image, finish, feel, handling, ride, etc. I consider myself very fortunate to have one of each. I'm sure I'm not alone. Both evoke similar emotions. Both are fine instruments and objects of desire and passion. I could go on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted December 23, 2009 Share #17 Posted December 23, 2009 The M9 is an improved M8 camera, but the general design is the same (body, software, rangefinder, etc.). The next M camera should be a deeper revision. I am not thinking on something radical, but on many small changes and improvements, from the LCD, to the interface at the back of the camera, the rangefinder, the thickness of the body, the electronics, processor... maybe the type of sensor... Preserving the classical look and feel of M cameras, of course. And it will require time. The M8/M9 development is Jenoptik's. The next one has to be Leica's, like the S2 camera. That is expensive too, and they may be working in other projects now (I don't know). So there are two conflicting forces: the period of time of strong sales of M9 cameras, and the period of time Leica needs for a complete development. I think the first one is shorter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheewai_m6 Posted December 23, 2009 Share #18 Posted December 23, 2009 In general I despise it when people start pretending to know what's best for Leica's business, so take the following as an idea, not a prescription I would very much appreciate it if Leica nailed the M digital body down: soft buttons and maybe even a soft knob (see ISO control thread), then basically could swap out the digital insides (sensor, processors, camera logic, etc.) every few years or so. I'm sure it's much more complicated than that, but if Leica is going to survive, I highly doubt they can do it on the M and S2 alone, and they'll have to diversify their production resources across several lines and/or markets. Standardizing their bodies around replaceable guts might help owners feel like they're putting money into something which will be around a while. And it could make the relationship between revenue and camera bodies a bit more liquid. But only Leica knows what business they want to be in. With an M8, turned into an M8.u, and now an M9, clearly my "out of the camera market" mentality hasn't really panned out, and Leica has benefitted as a result. i think locking a body in, and upgrading internals is a fantastic idea. the body is made with such robust materials, it's not sustainable to be throwing out new models every few years. it's a waste of a finely crafted body. with the short time between m8 and m9, i believe (and this is just what i think) leica felt they needed to get into the digital market asap with the m8. there were a few major problems with the m8, and rather than fixing them, it was a better decision to do a whole new camera, and a full frame m. in my opinion this was the right direction. for all we know, research into a full frame m may have started at the same time as the m8 but just took that much longer to make it work. maybe... i don't know. leica doesn't need disclose every detail of research they're doing. i don't hope to see leica bringing out new models ever 2 - 3 years, rather 5 - 8 years. leica's 2nd go at a digital m, is producing images as good as or better than any jap company is, and they've been bringing out cameras every year. on the side. talking in USD. $7000 per m9. 7000 x 4000 = USD$28 000 000. obviously that's just retail value. still, a lot of cast gone into leica since 9th september. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpkoester Posted December 23, 2009 Share #19 Posted December 23, 2009 But if we go back to Porsche economics you might say the M8 was the early 911, with a few things that needed sorting, the M9 the short lived '72-'73 2.7 RS lightweight (because you don't get much technology for your money), and an M10 or M11 would be the modern Porsche 911, with all the comfortable bits like air con, traction control, electric windows, etc. This gives me hope when I look at the price of a 1973 RS lightweight compared to a current '911'........ Steve IMO it compares like this: M3 - 911 - big fun from the early seventies M6 - 911 Carrera 3.2 - best everyday historic Porsche M7 - 993 - best-ever air cooled car M8 - 996 - not loved by everyone but great everyday drive M9 - 997 - the current star to be completed... I have no idea what I should compare the 2.7 RS to. If you every drove a RS you might know it has nothing to do with photographie beside the emotions you keep :-) ciao tpk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnoble Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted December 23, 2009 A great comparison, TPK! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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