cowlishaw Posted January 5, 2010 Share #21 Posted January 5, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I just don't see the fascination with the GF-1, or other cameras primarily designed around using the LCD for composing/focusing at arms length. IMHO they are all just cellphone cameras without the phone. What the heck!?!? Hi, my name is Nathan Cowlishaw... and I stumbled into this forum but couldn't believe this comment!? I totally disagree because it is closed minded. This reminds me of an old timer that said amatuers use digital cameras and only real photographers work with silver crystals. And I support the micro 4/3s format from Panasonic. I see the LCD live-view as a new perspective in photography; it's a creative new way of seeing the world. This is what has been happening in all those digicams amongst regular snap-shooters. How are photographers immune from trying out new things? I'm buying the GF1. The image quality is suburb. Since i am a poor starving college student and I could never even imagine owning a Leica even if I wanted to!? Boy, the arrogance some people have! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 5, 2010 Posted January 5, 2010 Hi cowlishaw, Take a look here Panasonic GF-1 - Missed opportunity?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Craftsman Posted January 5, 2010 Share #22 Posted January 5, 2010 Good points and I agree. Unless it has Leica written on it some (not all) on this forum turn their nose up. I really like what Panasonic has done and am looking forward to buying a Gf-1 with the EVF myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 6, 2010 Share #23 Posted January 6, 2010 Welcome, Nathan. If you (and Craftsman) had read ALL of my post that you quote from, you'd see that I have nothing against Panasonic or the m4/3rds system. In fact I use a Pansonic GH-1 (and said so). And think it is better than the vast majority of DSLRs, including ones costing 3x the price, thanks to the big INTERNAL viewfinder. The original G1 has the same finder (just no video option) if one wants something even less expensive. I was commenting on the infatuation people have with a camera that shoots - in operation - like a cellphone. Same comments would apply to the LEICA-dotted Clux and Dlux. "Arrogant"? - Son, you haven't seen me arrogant yet. "Arrogant" is if I say "Apparently, reading comprehension is no longer a required skill for college admission." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertoDeRoma Posted January 6, 2010 Share #24 Posted January 6, 2010 "Arrogant"? - Son, you haven't seen me arrogant yet. "Arrogant" is if I say "Apparently, reading comprehension is no longer a required skill for college admission." LOL. That's a suburbly amusing comment . Alberto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted January 6, 2010 Share #25 Posted January 6, 2010 ... Boy, the arrogance some people have! I might consider it arrogant for a self-described "poor starving college student" (a slight exaggeration perhaps?) and first-time poster to quote out of context and call into question the views of a seasoned and respected professional photographer. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted January 6, 2010 Share #26 Posted January 6, 2010 I'd like to crosspost my comment from the x1 thread.. part of it at least... a thread that has led me to further consider non leica options...as I think it's relevant to this thread. Regarding the GF-1 "...Second and third strike on panasonic - calling them to find out where to go to find one - automated system, not people, annoying delay getting through. I gave presales my zip code - here in Phoenix, and she said "I only show one dealer carrying those in stock" to which I thought, alright - I'm going to have to drive to Tempe or similar. Then she added - "this one's gunna be in Illinois, let me get you that number" I asked her if she realized I was in Arizona and she said "yes sir". Do a little math lady, I asked for a local dealer, and I think most people are aware of Amazon and B&H. The fact this cam is NOT being carried by the two major stores (photomark and tempe camera) here gives me great pause, not just due to possibly having to return a second cam to Amazon, but also - because products whose launches that don't get carried in real life stores don't tend to live long. So - maybe it is getting pushed out of the picture.(for me)" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craftsman Posted January 6, 2010 Share #27 Posted January 6, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) LOL. That's a suburbly amusing comment . Alberto Neither funny or arrogant simply rude. It is somewhat arrogant to say that "it's just a cell phone without the phone" Does that also hold true for the X1? Well of course not. Look at the styling ,the packaging, the Leica glass,the price it's clear we're talking about a superior product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted January 6, 2010 Share #28 Posted January 6, 2010 They may not be in Arizona, but you can buy them all day at Samy's in LA, and most other camera stores. There is a post on Thom Hogan's site that listed the top camera companies, selling interchangeable lens cameras, by sales, for last year. Canon was 1, Nikon was 2, Panasonic was 3, Olympus was 4, and Sony was 5. Panasonic and Olympus took a HUGE bite out of interchangeable lens camera sales with the m4/3 units, if Hogan's numbers are correct. They completely wasted Sony. I think what we're seeing is the "Leica" effect, circa 1940-60. The very best DSLRs are now as big and heavy as the old Speed Graphics were in the the 30s and 40s. m4/3 isn't beating those big DSLRs on absolute image quality, but on "good enough" quality, just like the early Leicas beat the Graphics. Leica simply doesn't compete in this area - it is a niche camera for specialists, and an extremely good one. What befuddles me about Leica's attitude toward m4/3 is that with relatively few modifications they could make wonderful use of many of their lenses on an m4/3 body. Everything over about 35mm is perfectly useable (that'd be 70 mm equivalent.) I think with some work, Leica might even be able to engineer a m4/3 that would take their wides, too. Leica is really a lens company that sells a few bodies...I don't see any way that pushing a new, cheap modern body out there would hurt them. They even had the partnership with Panasonic in place... I have used my longer Leica lenses with the m4/3, and they work okay. What's not to like about a 135 Leica (270 equiv) image-stabilized in an $1,000 body? It'd open up a whole new kind of work for Leica lenses. Hmmm...a fighter plane just flew by my house. Is there something going on out there? I gotta get away from my computer more often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted January 6, 2010 Share #29 Posted January 6, 2010 They may not be in Arizona, but you can buy them all day at Samy's in LA, and most other camera stores. Do you think placement in NY and LA is good enough? Phoenix is in the top 5 populated cities in the USA and growing faster than LA and NYC - but i can't find people who even carry them, let alone have them in stock. I want to HOLD a camera when I am going to spend a grand or more on it.. i'd be far more inclined to buy a pas without needing to, but coupled with the fact that the ep2 felt so strange in my hands, I really don't want to order from amazon, wait 6 weeks, get it in only to find it's a horrible fit for my hands. So I do consider it a problem that the camera doesn't even appear to be carried in this metropolis... anywhere, and the other issues with presales support also give me pause. Having had to deal with phone support all of my life, there is certain data you can extrapolate about a company based on their phone support, panasonic did not represent a good level of presales support - and that should cause someone to consider what level of postsales support they shall receive. I have nothing against Panasonic - I really would like to experience the GF1, just doesn't seem likely (unless i take a trip to LA that is). Maybe i'll revisit it in 6 months, but I'm not looking for a camera in 6 months, I'm looking for one now - and whilst I am willing to wait a reasonable amount of time - I'd like to at least know I'm in the queue... which can only happen with a preorder, which i can't do since I can't actually hold the camera. You definitely have some interesting thoughts on the other portions of your post - worth thinking about! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enty Posted January 6, 2010 Share #30 Posted January 6, 2010 I've a couple of points to make, for what they are worth. Firstly, as a Leica user (M8.2 & D-Lux4) I love the product. However, I have had much satisfaction from Panasonic over the years and now own a GF-1 (having sold my E-P1). I must say, I am of the view that Leica have so far missed a great opportunity by opting out of the micro 4/3 range. It might not suit everyone - electronic viewfinders, menus etc aren't to everyone's taste - but the format has made the photographic market sit up and pay attention. There is much excitement around this format and surely a great platform for development for the future. The reviews have, almost without exception, been excellent. Speaking personally, I am VERY impressed with the GF-1. The D-Lux4, despite it's successful LX-3 twin, has received significant support from Leica users new & old and I would imagine a re-badged GF-1 might have similar appeal. (Of course we don't even know whether Panasonic would wish to share their M4/3 platform in this way). I am not saying that the X1 is a bad product, or badly marketed or anything along those lines - I truly wish Leica well with it and will watch with interest. I bet the image quality is excellent, though I won't be buying one myself. But personally I worry that Leica is not up to speed with this fast-developing market. Like it or not, it is competing with the huge corporations. But let's trust the company that they know what they are trying to achieve, and that they can succeed. They really ought to have got it to market quicker though, having announced it in Sept. Secondly - and this is more a personal observation - I am having problems with my GF-1 recognising my Sumicrons, despite using the recommended (Lumix) M-adapter. I get a message telling me to "confirm that the lens is attached correctly". Has anyone had similar problems? I am using firmware 1.1 on the GF-1. I will speak to my retailer today in any case, but comments are welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted January 6, 2010 Share #31 Posted January 6, 2010 There is nothing to recognize. You need to enable the option that is called something like "operate without a lens" - it is explained in the leaflet that came with your adapter. There are no contacts on the Panasonic m43-m adapter so the camera has to be told to ignore that there are no signals coming from the lens. Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enty Posted January 6, 2010 Share #32 Posted January 6, 2010 There is nothing to recognize. You need to enable the option that is called something like "operate without a lens" - it is explained in the leaflet that came with your adapter. There are no contacts on the Panasonic m43-m adapter so the camera has to be told to ignore that there are no signals coming from the lens. Carl Thanks Carl - I should have read the manual! Interestingly, these lenses & adapter worked just fine on my Olympus E-P1, without having to make any menu changes, so I didn't even think! Thanks all the same, Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted January 6, 2010 Share #33 Posted January 6, 2010 Since i am a poor starving college student and I could never even imagine owning a Leica even if I wanted to!? Boy, the arrogance some people have! Ok, I have to call you out on this... if you can afford the GF-1, you are not a poor starving college student. Addtionally, anyone can get a job, or an extra job, and buy a Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted January 6, 2010 Share #34 Posted January 6, 2010 Ok, I have to call you out on this... if you can afford the GF-1, you are not a poor starving college student. Addtionally, anyone can get a job, or an extra job, and buy a Leica. TBH, i really don't think now is the time to say 'anyone can get a job' given global unemployment numbers and in spite of the thin veil of a warm blanket many governments are trying to cast to sell us on the idea everything is peachy...and I don't think that saying 'poor college student means can't scrape $900 - but it emphasizes th stark contrast between $900 and $2000 which is so to one of more limited means. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted January 6, 2010 Share #35 Posted January 6, 2010 TBH, i really don't think now is the time to say 'anyone can get a job' given global unemployment numbers and in spite of the thin veil of a warm blanket many governments are trying to cast to sell us on the idea everything is peachy...and I don't think that saying 'poor college student means can't scrape $900 - but it emphasizes th stark contrast between $900 and $2000 which is so to one of more limited means. Fair enough, but 90% of the population in the US is still employed in some form or another. Additionally, a second job (or first job for a college student) doesn't have to be a career... it can be at McDonalds...which in NYC is still hiring. Perhaps, I have a big city mentality when it comes to work... so this may not be the case in smaller towns. However, if you are in college, the college will have jobs available for sure. Generally speaking, the college students who complain about being poor (and, gag, starving!) are those that don't work because they say they don't have the time. I just don't buy it. I worked the whole time I was in college. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vip Posted January 10, 2010 Share #36 Posted January 10, 2010 Going back to Leica origin, Oskar Barnack made the smallest camera possible at that time. a Panasonic GF1 is much smaller than the average cameras with a beatiful idea of the additional reflex finder with a camera and system thought from scratch for digital. The cost is affordable, with function that can attract new customers to the brand. What GF1 is still missing is a Leica lens system Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted January 11, 2010 Share #37 Posted January 11, 2010 What GF1 is still missing is a Leica lens system and classic leica controls and aesthetics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan States Posted January 12, 2010 Share #38 Posted January 12, 2010 There is no such thing as a long-term platform in the modern world. That is Leica's problem. If they ever get the S2 into production it will already be behind the opposition, who are, no doubt, working on the next-but-one Big Thing already. The X1 is a niche side-show with no mainstream marketing appeal. The M9 is a brave attempt (after the M8 marketing fiasco) to perpetuate a 1950s platform with its roots 25 years before that. It will only ever sell in penny numbers compared to the mainstream. Most will be bought by folks who have already invested in lenses expensive lenses. The R series is dead, never a mainstream platform due to price (excellent though they were in their day). Auto-focus is demanded by the market- there is no solution. The Digilux 2 was an excellent opportunity to start a series of "different" digi-cams with conventional controls. The Digilux 3 was an abject failure because it moved the goal-posts too far. So; in answer to the question: Yes. You could not make this stuff up. Boo Hoo, the sky is falling. Too much negativity...block list time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vip Posted January 13, 2010 Share #39 Posted January 13, 2010 and classic leica controls and aesthetics. I agree! but for a reduced price a compromise can be accepted Remember the digilux or Dlux family.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertoDeRoma Posted January 13, 2010 Share #40 Posted January 13, 2010 I agree! but for a reduced price a compromise can be accepted Remember the digilux or Dlux family.... I (and many others) can vouch for the Digilux 2. I have never owned a camera that inspired me as much, was so much fun to use, or made me want to go out and shoot more. DSLRs left me cold and while I appreciated their features and speed, I simply did not enjoy using them. The Digilux 2 has that classic Leica looks, manual aperture, focus and shutter + autofocus and a view-finder that (although it's relatively low resolution and it's no range finder) is eminently usable. Yes, it's only 5MP, but it does a lot with them. It's too bad that Leica (and Panasonic) did not continue with the Digilux line. Alberto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.