wlaidlaw Posted December 9, 2009 Share #1 Posted December 9, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yesterday I took my IIF with 50 collapsible Summitar out to get some fresh air. Now the RF on a IIF is nothing to write home about, with even a good one like mine, being a somewhat dingy animal. However I noticed what a pleasure it was to focus the Summitar, with a silky smooth action and no "stiction" to speak of at all. I decided, as it had started to pour with rain in the afternoon, that I would be totally nerdy and get out all my Leica lenses to see how they compared. The modern ones are much stiffer and stickier than the older ones. The worst culprit is my chrome 35 Lux, which in spite of a great deal of use, is still quite jerky and takes quite a bit of concentration to get an accurate focus. The MATE and WATE are about equal, stiff and viscous but not jerky. The 75 Summarit with its larger diameter rubber focus ring feels smoother. My two slightly older Leica lenses but which are the least used (I bought them both second hand but the 90/2.8 had barely been used and the 135/4 had not even been opened) are much smoother and easier to focus. I regret to report that I have one modern lens that is the nicest of all my lenses, old or new to focus and that is a Zeiss chrome 50/2 ZM Planar. The action on this is like pulling a piece of silk out of melted butter. If Zeiss can get a focus action like this, should not Leica? Will the Planar action wear to become loose and sloppy over the years? What do others think? Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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spydrxx Posted December 9, 2009 Share #2 Posted December 9, 2009 Can't speak to the Zeiss, but your Leica lenses should all focus smoothly without force or bumpiness. Over the years I've had a few which seemed stiff, but a routine CLA got everything moving like the smooth touch we all expect. Yours might not have had enough use to loosen them up, or might need relubing and minor adjustments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted December 9, 2009 Can't speak to the Zeiss, but your Leica lenses should all focus smoothly without force or bumpiness. Over the years I've had a few which seemed stiff, but a routine CLA got everything moving like the smooth touch we all expect. Yours might not have had enough use to loosen them up, or might need relubing and minor adjustments. Both the chrome 35 and 50 ASPH Luxes are a bit notorious for stiff focusing. One of the reasons I passed on my chrome 50 Lux was the stiff focusing. Now that had not had a great deal of use from new, so it might have slackened off. My 35 Lux (a September 2006 lens from the final batch) has had a lot of use. It is better when it is warm, so I think the tolerances are just very tight and Leica uses quite thick grease in the focusing spirals, maybe to prevent wear. When I had it coded last year, I asked service if they thought the focusing was stiff when I left if with them at Solms. They twiddled it backwards and forwards a few times and pronounced it "normal". There is no bumpiness just too much stiction. If you end to end the focus ring a few times before you use it, it eases off a bit until you leave it again. That is normal behaviour of a grease, which is a "non-Newtonian liquid". My personal opinion is that Leica could do with looking at a higher tech grease, like micronised teflon suspended in silicone. These have very low temperature viscosity change coefficients and were originally developed for the US airforce for aircraft canon lubrication, where very low temperatures can be encountered but they still have to work when the canon is firing, when high temperatures will occur. I managed a few years ago to get hold of a couple of tubes and it is wonderful stuff. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcoombs Posted December 9, 2009 Share #4 Posted December 9, 2009 ...My personal opinion is that Leica could do with looking at a higher tech grease, like micronised teflon suspended in silicone. These have very low temperature viscosity change coefficients and were originally developed for the US airforce for aircraft canon lubrication, where very low temperatures can be encountered but they still have to work when the canon is firing, when high temperatures will occur. I managed a few years ago to get hold of a couple of tubes and it is wonderful stuff. Wilson Keeping your 50 Cal in working condition, I see. Cheers, Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 9, 2009 Share #5 Posted December 9, 2009 Both the chrome 35 and 50 ASPH Luxes are a bit notorious for stiff focusing. One of the reasons I passed on my chrome 50 Lux was the stiff focusing. Now that had not had a great deal of use from new, so it might have slackened off. My 35 Lux (a September 2006 lens from the final batch) has had a lot of use. It is better when it is warm, so I think the tolerances are just very tight and Leica uses quite thick grease in the focusing spirals, maybe to prevent wear. When I had it coded last year, I asked service if they thought the focusing was stiff when I left if with them at Solms. They twiddled it backwards and forwards a few times and pronounced it "normal". There is no bumpiness just too much stiction. If you end to end the focus ring a few times before you use it, it eases off a bit until you leave it again. That is normal behaviour of a grease, which is a "non-Newtonian liquid". My personal opinion is that Leica could do with looking at a higher tech grease, like micronised teflon suspended in silicone. These have very low temperature viscosity change coefficients and were originally developed for the US airforce for aircraft canon lubrication, where very low temperatures can be encountered but they still have to work when the canon is firing, when high temperatures will occur. I managed a few years ago to get hold of a couple of tubes and it is wonderful stuff. Wilson Do you know how they test focussing smoothness in Solms? A group of three ladies tests all outgoing lenses by twiddling them by hand and pronounces them passed or reject:eek: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_n Posted December 10, 2009 Share #6 Posted December 10, 2009 All my older lenses have smooth focus and I now mostly have ASPH lenses that are smooth too. The one exception is my Summilux 50 which is the LHSA version. It isn't stiff, I would describe it more as "sticky". Anyway I'm thinking of sending it to DAG because I'm just not using it in this condition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthman_1 Posted December 10, 2009 Share #7 Posted December 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) My black paint 50 lux is sticky, but it has slowly improved with a years worth of use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted December 10, 2009 Share #8 Posted December 10, 2009 My 35mm Summilux ASPH is quite old by now, but it was very smooth directly out of the box, and remains so. The 50mm Summilux ASPH, however, was a beast -- very stiff, indeed so stiff that exact focusing was impossible! You had to use so much force that you inevitably overshot focus. As it did not ease up with use, it went back to Solms and returned improved, but still with a heavy focusing action. Given the size of the lens, it could have been provided with a reasonably deep knurled focusing ring, which would have made the tab unnecessary, and permitted a more natural thumb-and-first-finger focusing grip. A A better adjusted helical would have been even better. Not possible with a floating element? Young man, my Olympus OM 50mm Macro has a floating element (before the Nikon counterpart had one) and it is and was silky smooth and it does still work without any backlash whatsoever. Some of the gnomes of Solms have been sleeping soundly. The old man from the Age of Craftsmanship Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted December 10, 2009 Share #9 Posted December 10, 2009 Mate it just depends who assembles them. If its too stiff its too stiff. Send it back for a service and if you are lucky it will be sent back so loose its wobbly. Its a Leica. What do you expect? Three blind ladies wiggling lenses, I dont doubt:D. Thats QA for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted December 10, 2009 Do you know how they test focussing smoothness in Solms? A group of three ladies tests all outgoing lenses by twiddling them by hand and pronounces them passed or reject:eek: Jaap, Actually it was a very pretty young lady, who twiddled the lens right in front of me (pant pant). The three old witches were kept stirring their pot in the back office, boiling up lens grease (eye of newt, ear of RD-1 user etc) Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted December 10, 2009 Keeping your 50 Cal in working condition, I see. Cheers, Doug Doug, .50 cal is for wimps - .700" H&H Royal Express is what you need. I have actually used the grease on the bolts of the vintage rifles I restore as a hobby, for years. It makes things like a Mannlicher 94 straight pull bolt rifle work properly for the first time in its 104 year life. I have almost run out and I can now only buy a 5 kg tin from Du Pont, which would last me about 3 lifetimes. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 10, 2009 Share #12 Posted December 10, 2009 Mate it just depends who assembles them. If its too stiff its too stiff. Send it back for a service and if you are lucky it will be sent back so loose its wobbly. Its a Leica. What do you expect?Three blind ladies wiggling lenses, I dont doubt:D. Thats QA for you. Actually you would be surprised at the precision obtainable by the motoric and sensory abilities of the human hand. It outperforms the eye by at least 25 times, which can easily be proved, as using a surgical telesope with a 25x magnification does not result in loss of control over the instruments used. I quite trust twiddling young ladies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted December 10, 2009 Share #13 Posted December 10, 2009 Man, I dont even trust them to get the film to run through the film gate in three tries. I trust stuff is right out of the box. Sprocket holes in the feet anyone? But Ps .... To the OP, no they shouldnt be, and you pay excessively to have it right at the time of purchase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted December 10, 2009 Share #14 Posted December 10, 2009 The smaller lenses seem to have less resistance to focussing. My 28 El, 35 cron, 50 cron are really nice. My 50 lux is a bit stiff as are my other bigger lenses. Lenses with tabs for focussing do need to be smooth and easy. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted December 10, 2009 Share #15 Posted December 10, 2009 Both the chrome 35 and 50 ASPH Luxes are a bit notorious for stiff focusing. Wilson Try the 35mm Summicron; silky smooth! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darvin2138 Posted December 10, 2009 Share #16 Posted December 10, 2009 My 50mm Summilux ASPH is stiff at a certain portion out of the box. Most of the times accurate focusing is impossible. I hope stiffness will be gone as it it ages... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted December 10, 2009 Share #17 Posted December 10, 2009 My 50mm Summilux ASPH is stiff at a certain portion out of the box. Most of the times accurate focusing is impossible. I hope stiffness will be gone as it it ages... Send it back with a complaint while the guaranty lasts. It will likely not get better with the next five or ten years of use. The old man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 10, 2009 Share #18 Posted December 10, 2009 Given the size of the lens, it could have been provided with a reasonably deep knurled focusing ring, which would have made the tab unnecessary, and permitted a more natural thumb-and-first-finger focusing grip. The old man from the Age of Craftsmanship Unlike my 28 cron asph and 35 cron asph, each of which has a tab only, my 50 lux asph has both a tab and a knurled ring. I like the 2 options, as the ring is often more to my liking for fine focusing. I wonder if both mechanisms are included with the 50 lux in recognition of its somewhat less smooth focusing action than the other 2 lenses. Regardless, all 3 lenses focus well, with no complaint here. And, my 75 cron asph, which has no tab, is smooth as silk. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcoombs Posted December 10, 2009 Share #19 Posted December 10, 2009 My 50mm Summilux ASPH is stiff at a certain portion out of the box. Most of the times accurate focusing is impossible. I hope stiffness will be gone as it it ages... If it's anything like me, it will get stiffer with age... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 10, 2009 Share #20 Posted December 10, 2009 If it's anything like me, it will get stiffer with age... I hear there are 3 ladies in Solms to check on this. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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