Leica M8 - Pros & Cons for Leica newbie

[Clandrel]

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Hi,

 

I can get a Leica M8 (firmware 2.004) in chrome/silver with handle and a

Leica Elmarit-M f2.8/24mm ASPH, 6 bit, with UV/IR filter for $5000 - UNUSED.

 

What are the pros and cons, and is it a good deal?

 

I have a X1 on order, but I'm thinking about going M.

 

Thoughts?

 

Best

 

Claus

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[proenca]

In theory, the M8 would be a better option that the X1 : the sensor is bigger, noise would be lower, etc.

 

But again the X1 is much newer and the sensor is supposedly improved ( should be... ) over the M8 sensor.

 

Now lens wise a 24 Elmarit M would be higher quality than a X1 24 Elmarit ( even if they share the same name ) because well... the 24 Elmarit is one of the best and legendary M designs and with the price of these lens alone ( used ) you can buy at least 2 brand new X1

 

Buying a M8 and a 24 EM means you can use it pretty much the same way as a X1 and has a few advantages : you can upgrade the M8 to a M9, Film M, M10 or whatever and still keep the lens or you can buy other lens.

 

With the X1 you can buy erm... an external viewfinder and thats pretty much it.

 

What is better ? if you want a pocket size quality camera, the X1 beats the M8 due to its size and weight.

 

Flexibility the M8 route beats the X1.

 

Image quality wise unless people have a magic ball, whatever people say to you its assumptions, since the X1 isnt out, so you can't compare both.

 

Its up to you : loose a bit of savings of weight and size and gain flexiblity and future image quality ? Go m8 ? prefer less weight , size and much less money invested ? Go X1.

 

Only you can answer this...

 

And remember : you have to compromise and get the camera that you see carrying all the time. A perfect camera only takes takes perfect pictures if you take it with you. If you leave it at home because its too bulky, big or heavy, its worth 0. Otherwise we will would be carrying 33098903 megapixels medium format cameras and dozens of MF lens... but not everyone has a spare mule or two to carry that gear so we opted something smaller.

 

For me, which I was used to carry a 1Ds and D2x and zoom lens, the M8 is a delight. Have no regrets. Granted my last DSLR, a 1Ds II its a better camera in many regards but have much better images with my M8. why ? because its with me most of the time where the 1Ds was being left at home due to size and weight.

[jsrockit]

Have you used an M in the past? Did you love it? Are you buying the X1 because you wanted to save money on a M or because you like the X1 enough to be content?

[danyves]

I would go for Leica M8 (firmware 2.004) in chrome/silver with handle and a

Leica Elmarit-M f2.8/24mm ASPH, 6 bit, with UV/IR filter for $5000 - UNUSED.

 

Perfect team, great lens, a pure jewel.

[Speenth]

Hi,

 

I can get a Leica M8 (firmware 2.004) in chrome/silver with handle and a

Leica Elmarit-M f2.8/24mm ASPH, 6 bit, with UV/IR filter for $5000 - UNUSED.

 

What are the pros and cons, and is it a good deal?

 

I have a X1 on order, but I'm thinking about going M.

 

Thoughts?

 

Best

 

Claus

 

Why do you want an X1? If you can answer that objectively, then you'll be clear about why you do not want the M8 and Elmarit 24. The two cameras are quite different in every way and they're aimed at different users.

 

Personally I see the X1 as a toy for oligarch's girlfriends, but I'm wholly biased. I love my M8, largely because it does most things well in most circumstances. Forget long telephoto stuff, not much good for high speed action and probably not a good choice for macro, but for everything else its small enough, wieldy enough, technically good enough in every way. It's well built and reliable so far, but when it dies I'll still have my collection of peerless M lenses to put on some future M-mount camera (or to sell to fund my private yacht with matching helicopter - selling my Leica stuff is the only way I'm going to get to be an oligarch).

 

I reckon the limitations of the X1 will frustrate you every time you need a lens longer, wider or faster than the fixed offering on the X1. When the lovely looks of the X1 become too familiar, you'll be wondering why you didn't spend your $2,000 on a GF-1 with numerous lenses and all the accessories. But you'll never be thinking that way if you go for the M8 .....

 

 

.... you'll just be a sad old git like me, trying to justify a further $2,000 for even more lenses ....

[damaso]

I would say go with the M8 but realize it has its flaws, namely being quiet loud in comparison to film M cameras and frame lines that take some getting used to. It is a more flexible camera than the X1 I think and despite its faults I really have enjoyed using one...

[Knomad]

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All I can tell you is that I'm very happy with my M8, in part because it's very well suited for the kinds of photography that I do.

[jsrockit]

Why do you want an X1? If you can answer that objectively, then you'll be clear about why you do not want the M8 and Elmarit 24. The two cameras are quite different in every way and they're aimed at different users.

 

Personally I see the X1 as a toy for oligarch's girlfriends, but I'm wholly biased. I love my M8, largely because it does most things well in most circumstances. Forget long telephoto stuff, not much good for high speed action and probably not a good choice for macro, but for everything else its small enough, wieldy enough, technically good enough in every way. It's well built and reliable so far, but when it dies I'll still have my collection of peerless M lenses to put on some future M-mount camera (or to sell to fund my private yacht with matching helicopter - selling my Leica stuff is the only way I'm going to get to be an oligarch).

 

I reckon the limitations of the X1 will frustrate you every time you need a lens longer, wider or faster than the fixed offering on the X1. When the lovely looks of the X1 become too familiar, you'll be wondering why you didn't spend your $2,000 on a GF-1 with numerous lenses and all the accessories. But you'll never be thinking that way if you go for the M8 .....

 

 

.... you'll just be a sad old git like me, trying to justify a further $2,000 for even more lenses ....

 

Jeez, the X1 will be a very capable camera. A lot of users only use a 35mm lens for everything they do. I never, ever use telephoto lenses. I like the M8 and the X1... and would use them the same way for the same photos. The X1 is so much nicer than the GF-1 for one reason... the X1 is designed like a photographer's camera should be and the GF-1 is still designed like a consumer camera i.e. dense menus, no dedicated wheels, etc.

[jsrockit]

and frame lines that take some getting used to.

 

As a film M user that recently moved to an M8, what takes getting used to?

[Speenth]

Jeez, the X1 will be a very capable camera. A lot of users only use a 35mm lens for everything they do. I never, ever use telephoto lenses. I like the M8 and the X1... and would use them the same way for the same photos. The X1 is so much nicer than the GF-1 for one reason... the X1 is designed like a photographer's camera should be and the GF-1 is still designed like a consumer camera i.e. dense menus, no dedicated wheels, etc.

 

 

I wholly agree, but the OP wants to know whether to buy an M8 or an X1. The answer to his question lies in why he wants an X1. If it's because he uses a camera like you do, then maybe his pre-order for the X1 should stand. But, maybe he'd love the GF-1's consumer-orientation (clearly many punters do). Overall however, I reckon the M8 is the wise choice for the long term - for all the reasons set out in my earlier post.

[jsrockit]

Overall however, I reckon the M8 is the wise choice for the long term - for all the reasons set out in my earlier post.

 

I can agree with that for sure.

[fotografr]

$5000 is an excellent price for the pair. Great camera, great lens.

[Clandrel]

Sorry for all these newbie questions, but the M8 doesn't have a built in flash?

Is there a point buying one, or do you manage most situations without a flash?

 

Sorry, I'm an amature, wanting to get into the Leica world, and loving to take photographs.

 

Best

 

Claus

[cdgerston]

Sorry for all these newbie questions, but the M8 doesn't have a built in flash?

Is there a point buying one, or do you manage most situations without a flash?

 

Best

 

Claus

 

There are a variety of flashes you can use with the M8. A few by Leica, but other brands can also work. I use my Canon flashes in manual mode. However, I rarely use a flash with the M8, preferring to use fast lenses and/or higher ISOs whenever the light is low. I believe most people using an M see that as one of the camera's strengths: working with available light.

[Clandrel]

Thanks!

 

That was my idea. I generally hate flash!

And the M8 seem to have enough light to minimize the need for flash.

 

C

[ottocrat]

In theory, the M8 would be a better option that the X1 : the sensor is bigger, noise would be lower, etc.

The noise on the X1 would be significantly lower than on the M8, I should say, given the sensor being used. Also, sensor size is virtually the same, M8 is slightly bigger but really only very slightly.

 

As someone who was about to buy an X1 but in the end decided on a second hand M8.2 instead, I'd say that the real clincher is value for money. With a second-hand M8 you will have a camera that does most of what an X1 does, with the option of better lenses, and a variety of lenses, and a proper viewfinder. What the X1 offers by contrast is auto-focus, better low-light performance (compared to an M8 with a similar Elmarit), and an onboard flash, in a smaller body. That's a very tempting package. But an X1 will depreciate like nobody's business. You will still get back a fair bit of what you invest in a second-hand M8 if and when you decide to sell it; and the lenses will keep their value to an even greater degree.

 

One last word, as a Leica newbie, but as someone returning to the world of manual photography after a few years: don't expect instant results. I'm finding the rangefinder manual focus in particular hard to get to grips with; also the framing in the viewfinder is quite different to what I'm used to. There's quite a steep learning curve.

[ottocrat]

And the M8 seem to have enough light to minimize the need for flash.

Depends on the lens of course, but I wouldn't really agree. Noise levels are just too high over ISO 640.

[Jiukuic5609]

I got an m8 after selling my d700 and all my lenses. I now have the M8, 28mm Elmarit 28mm, and Summicron 50mm. I have never regretted the decision for a second. IMO I think that is a great 2 lens M8 Kit and it's reasonably priced on the used market. I have pics and reviews of these three on my site if you want more info,,,

 

 

50mm:

Leica Summicron-M 50mm Review – Rigid III — Daniel Valente Photography

 

28mm:

Leica Elmarit 28mm Review for M8 — Daniel Valente Photography

 

Inexpensive Leica System:

My Technique for an Inexpensive Leica Digital M System — Daniel Valente Photography

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[ottocrat]

Inexpensive Leica System:

My Technique for an Inexpensive Leica Digital M System — Daniel Valente Photography

Nice little essay, this; you hit the nail on the head. Happily, like you, I managed to step off the Nikon upgrade/acquisition merry-go-round, but not before I'd sunk a lot of money into a whole big heap of equipment that I found myself rarely using. I can't wait for my first holiday with just the Leica...

[Clandrel]

Excellent read, Daniel! And some really nice photos on your site...