gpleica Posted December 5, 2009 Share #1 Posted December 5, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'd like to hear from other M9 owners if they are experiencing dust problems on their sensors. I've had my M9 for a little over a month now, shot 3000+ frames with it, and have had to drop my camera off at Leica headquarters in NJ (an hour away) twice now to have it cleaned. Their thoughts are that the camera did not come from Solms with the dust they found in it - and they politely reminded me that it is not a "sealed" body. I take great care when changing lenses to blow off the rear elements with a Rocket blower prior to putting them on. I change lenses quickly and am careful where I do this (no dusty factory floors or wood shops, etc.). I always have the camera OFF when changing lenses so the sensor is not charged - which I hear can attract dust. And I live and work and shoot in fairly clean environments - outdoors mostly, in the clean NE Pennsylvania air. The Leica technician said that there's always microscopic dust floating around and that I cannot expect to have a perfectly clean sensor....and recommended the DustAid Platinum product - which I have now bought and will use sometime soon probably. But I have been shooting with Nikons for the last five years with relatively little in the way of dust problems. So what do you think? Is the Lecia M9 (and M8 I presume) not robust enough to take professional use when it comes to tight seals? Or is this just a new fact of life that I have to learn to live with - that dust will always be an issue with an M9 and that I'll just have to get used to cleaning the sensor? Geoffrey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Hi gpleica, Take a look here Dust problems with the M9. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted December 5, 2009 Share #2 Posted December 5, 2009 Yes, but have you noticed the incredible detail in those spots? Seriously, though, I wonder about the use of a rocket blower except if you have a known dust issue already. Seems it might be safer to keep air still when changing lenses and leave well enough alone. Anyway, has worked for me with M8.2...same principle. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted December 5, 2009 Share #3 Posted December 5, 2009 Just buy an M9 for each lens you have:D What I do is not far off actually, but I don't use many lenses. I have noticed some dust on my recent photos so I guess I'll have to try a cleaning. I only cleaned my M8 sensor once in a year of use, but I had two bodies most of that time so I changed lenses even less often. I still don't have my second M9 so for now I am switching more than I normally would. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoody Posted December 5, 2009 Share #4 Posted December 5, 2009 I haven't pressed the trigger 3000 times (probably somewhere north of 1000 times), but after an initial cleaning I did myself with sensor swabs (the debris consisted of oily spots), I haven't had any dust issue even though I'm not as diligent about blowing dust from rear elements in the lens as I'd like to be. It's great to hear that they recommend Dust-Aid Platinum. I haven't used it, but it seems like a quick and efficient way to deal with sensor debris. I do envy the medium format back owners and the ease with which they can clean their sensors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted December 5, 2009 Share #5 Posted December 5, 2009 Geoffrey, Talked with a National Geographic Traveler senior picture editor, and asked how he dealt with dust, he very firmly said that the dust-aid thing was tested and approved by their tech-department. So I picked up a couple of the platinum boxes, they works perfectly. easy and fast. solves most problems on the spot. Honestly, i don't do anything particular when changing lenses, when using multiple lenses they typically are uncapped in the bag. I simply swap them as I always have, no dusting or messing. if I have a feeling there is dust I tend to blow shortly on the rear-element. My cameras get dirty. but dust have not really been a problem. so far I have only discovered dust by shooting a white wall at f16, so the dust have not really be a issue so far. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem7 Posted December 5, 2009 Share #6 Posted December 5, 2009 I am not careful about changing lenses. I change lenses with the power on, and even clean my sensor with the camera in bulb mode with a rocket blower every day and I have no dust problem at all. Up to 5000 on my M9 and pretty much dust free. Just blow the sensor with a rocket blower every day and you will be fine. I did this with my M8's and now the M9. Never once had to wet clean a sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthman_1 Posted December 5, 2009 Share #7 Posted December 5, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) But I have been shooting with Nikons for the last five years with relatively little in the way of dust problems. Geoffrey I can't tell you about M9 dust because I'm still waiting, but I can tell you I have constant dust issues with my D3:rolleyes: so I'm not convinced sealing makes a big difference. Maybe when I get my M9 and I don't have dust issues we can swap secrets??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthman_1 Posted December 5, 2009 Share #8 Posted December 5, 2009 Just buy an M9 for each lens you have:D . This comment scares the hell out of me and my bank account. But it does work with M6s... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted December 5, 2009 Share #9 Posted December 5, 2009 You follow all recommendations that I have seen here and that I am fine with. So there are non to be added. As most Dslr user own zoom lenses which suck in air I cannot follow your observations. The M9 has a clear advantage in this respect. I very seldomly clean my sensor, for sure I do not blow it daily as Steve mentioned. May Be this The reason why his images are far better than mine, hm? With time you will get used to a favorite lens most likely and tend to change lenses less often. Overall the best for now is to use a rocket blower. Regards Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted December 5, 2009 Share #10 Posted December 5, 2009 ...the dust-aid thing was tested and approved by their tech-department. So I picked up a couple of the platinum boxes, they works perfectly. easy and fast. solves most problems on the spot...Bo, what are these boxes to which you refer? —Mitch/Pranburi Flickr: Mitch Alland's Photostream Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted December 5, 2009 Share #11 Posted December 5, 2009 The shutter of my M8 spit oil on the sensor for more than half a year, while I was scrubbing away diligently with Eclipse E2. But when I put it up for sale recently, I had not swabbed it for a full year. I have just done my first cleaning of the M9 sensor -- an oil spot all right. I wonder what they are using at Copal, or is it Seiko? Shark oil? Hair oil? Some little known Oriental oil which cannot be traced by Western methods, like the poison in classical detective stories? Hair, however, sems to be less of a problem as long as you keep your beard off the shutter. Trim it short. The old bearded man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted December 5, 2009 Share #12 Posted December 5, 2009 I feel I'm missing something. Never cleaned the M9 and shot 10,000+ frames. Though the camera was around Leica for buffer adjust and QC (where they probably cleaned the sensor just for fun) I've only seen dust or hair once and it went away after three frames. Could someone post a photo of a "dusty M9 sensor." Not kidding, I would like to see a frame with dust in it. And Bo, those boxes. Du you have more data or a picture of them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted December 5, 2009 Share #13 Posted December 5, 2009 I feel I'm missing something. Never cleaned the M9 and shot 10,000+ frames. Though the camera was around Leica for buffer adjust and QC (where they probably cleaned the sensor just for fun) I've only seen dust or hair once and it went away after three frames. Could someone post a photo of a "dusty M9 sensor." Not kidding, I would like to see a frame with dust in it. And Bo, those boxes. Du you have more data or a picture of them? I tend to think that dust can be pretty subtle, and truthfully not everybody knows they have it unless, for instance, they do some more radical post processing that accentuates sky tones or smooth surfaces, or they have been shooting at small apertures which also accentuates dust. But there is one thing thats certain, if you haven't had a dust problem, you will have a dust problem eventually. Its true even of the very best cameras that clean their own sensors, like Olympus. One day a wet piece of dust will stick, and stick out like a sore thumb in images. There's only one solution, and its not taking it back to Leica each time, its cleaning it yourself. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 5, 2009 Share #14 Posted December 5, 2009 I don't know if Dust Aids have improved but I bought a box soon after they came out. On about the 4th use, I was picking one of the sticky pads off the backing strip, when it separated in the middle. leaving one sticky surface on the wand and one still on the backing strip. I sent them back to Dust Aid and they said they were a faulty tin of them, giving me a refund. However, imagine if this happened on your sensor. I for one, will never buy these again. I too have had a few problems cleaning the M9 sensor. I get it spotlessly clean, checked with a sensor loupe. close the shutter and then find it has a few dust specs on it. Open the shutter up again and you can see them with the loupe. I am assuming it is dust either on the shutter or in the chamber, which is being stirred up by the shutter movement. It is getting better, so I am guessing it is dust left there during the manufacturing process. I think Leica's clean room procedures may need improvement. I am surprised to see the assemblers not wearing gloves. I have also found on wet cleans, Visible Dust corner sticks assist with getting the sensor corners clean, which is difficult with the standard wand. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted December 5, 2009 Share #15 Posted December 5, 2009 Just buy an M9 for each lens you have:D The camera is not sealed :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted December 5, 2009 Share #16 Posted December 5, 2009 Leica itself uses this: SensorVu Cleaner [DL-AC01] : Dot Line Corp., Serving You Since 1963 Canon professional service uses the same (or very similar) for fast cleaning. You can see a Leica worker using it in Michael Reichmann's video on the manufacturing plant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravastar Posted December 5, 2009 Share #17 Posted December 5, 2009 I live in a fairly dusty (domestic) environment and haven't had many problems that a bulb blower doesn't solve. That's over a period of 2 years with the M8 and just over 2 months with the M9. I change lenses frequently. What hasn't been mentioned is the effect of aperture on the visibility of dust. I nearly always shoot with large apertures and I suspect that's why I don't have a problem. ETA: If you really want to see the dust on the sensor cover glass make a pinhole camera from a drilled out body cap and aluminum foil. Depending on the size of the pin hole the aperture will be of the order of f1:150. Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 5, 2009 Share #18 Posted December 5, 2009 I live in a fairly dusty (domestic) environment and haven't had many problems that a bulb blower doesn't solve. That's over a period of 2 years with the M8 and just over 2 months with the M9. I change lenses frequently. What hasn't been mentioned is the effect of aperture on the visibility of dust. I nearly always shoot with large apertures and I suspect that's why I don't have a problem. ETA: If you really want to see the dust on the sensor cover glass make a pinhole camera from a drilled out body cap and aluminum foil. Depending on the size of the pin hole the aperture will be of the order of f1:150. Bob. Bob, That is exactly right. I use an Elmarit 90 at f16 and defocussed (set at 1M) on a sky shot to check for dust. I do have a Leicagoodies pinhole and I will have to give it a go to check for dust, oil blobs and other gremlins when I next do a sensor assessment (due early next week). Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor AIS Posted December 5, 2009 Share #19 Posted December 5, 2009 For my D3 and 5D2 I use the Arctic butterfly. Since than I have had no problems with dust. Before that and many of my images had the dreaded evidence of dust. And worse metal from changing from changing Blowing on the sensor with the bulb blower will help unless you really got crud stuck on the sensor. I was terrified to touch the sensor in the beginning but now I don't give it a second thought. cleaning the sensor is part of work flow of using a digital camera with interchangeable lenses. Im sure the M9 is no different. It's not a matter of if, just a matter of when and how. Gregory SmugMug Photo & Video Sharing. You look better here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 5, 2009 Share #20 Posted December 5, 2009 Leica itself uses this: SensorVu Cleaner [DL-AC01] : Dot Line Corp., Serving You Since 1963 Canon professional service uses the same (or very similar) for fast cleaning. You can see a Leica worker using it in Michael Reichmann's video on the manufacturing plant. Maybe their practices have changed, or vary between manufacture and after-sale service; or maybe this was one individual's choice. According to LFI article (7/2007)..."Leica's customer service uses nothing fancy but a homemade plastic spatula, dry optical cloths and isopropyl alcohol." Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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