contaxgary Posted December 1, 2009 Share #41 Posted December 1, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Why do people keep comparing these two cameras? They are totally different outside of the fact that they are both big sensor digital cameras. I suppose that you can only consider the X1. Good for you. For me, I want a small camera with good ergonomics, which produces technically good images. From what I have seen the GXR qualifies, except that I prefer the more traditional external aperture, shutter controls of the X1, but the GXR has many qualities which I prefer. I purchased Ikons over the Leica Ms for the features that I prefer. For someone who wants a good viewfinder, both the 3" and EVF are 920K and the EVF is viewable in bright sunlight. I may prefer an optical viewfinder, but that is me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Hi contaxgary, Take a look here Leica X1 LCD screen only 230k pixel - dealbreaker for me. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jsrockit Posted December 1, 2009 Share #42 Posted December 1, 2009 I suppose that you can only consider the X1. Good for you. For me, I want a small camera with good ergonomics, which produces technically good images. From what I have seen the GXR qualifies, except that I prefer the more traditional external aperture, shutter controls of the X1, but the GXR has many qualities which I prefer. I purchased Ikons over the Leica Ms for the features that I prefer. For someone who wants a good viewfinder, both the 3" and EVF are 920K and the EVF is viewable in bright sunlight. I may prefer an optical viewfinder, but that is me. Understandable... I'm just being a cranky purist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 1, 2009 Share #43 Posted December 1, 2009 The sensor is large, so the DoF isn't so wide as we assume, specially if the lens is wide open. I have no experience with 24mm M lenses but i've got misfocused pics with R-D1 and 21mm lenses sometimes. Mostly close-ups though. At f/2.8 and, say, 2 meters subject distance, there is about 30cm DoF in front of the subject matter and 40cm behind the latter so little misfocusings should remain acceptable at medium to long distance IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott J Posted December 1, 2009 Share #44 Posted December 1, 2009 I am very disappointed with the X1 LCD screen, and pixel count will not change with firmware updates. This is a dealbreaker for me. I know many of you are pros who prefer OVF instead of LCD for composition. However, the X1 is a point n shoot and should have a good LCD for the price. All I am asking is a reasonable LCD. If you look at the competition below, I think 230k LCD is unreasonable. Comparison of LCD Pixels Leica X1: 230k Sigma DP2: 230k Panasonic GF1: 460k Olympus EP1/2: 230k Canon G11: 460k LX3: 460k Ricoh GRDIII: 920k I am currently using an LX3, and thought of upgrading to X1. But I see the LCD pixel count and go WTF: what is the point of having a big sensor if I cannot clearly see what I am composing? I have seen 230k pixel LCDs (on the Olympus EP-1) and I am very unimpressed. I hesitate to pay so much for X1, and to downgrade my pixel count. please let me know ur opinion Wow, is this what people care about? Sad... Do you remember a focusing screen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mitchum Posted December 2, 2009 Share #45 Posted December 2, 2009 Wow, is this what people care about? Sad... I think it's sad people don't care about getting full value for their money. A lot of people here seem to have money to burn and have lost touch with this concept. A $2000 point and shoot camera should have an LCD screen at least as good as as those selling for $200. We shouldn't even be debating this. It's just common sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mitchum Posted December 2, 2009 Share #46 Posted December 2, 2009 So no competition for the X1 then? They must be happy at Leica. There will undoubtedly be more cameras of this type soon. Canon, Nikon and Sony are all reportedly working on them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted December 2, 2009 Share #47 Posted December 2, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) +1, I agree with you fully. It seems that Leica defenders don't care about value. For a P&S at this price point one should be getting the best technology that is available at the highest quality. It is a way for a manufacturer to say to their customers that they respect them and realize that they are charging a high price but in return they offer better quality and longevity. Knowing the speed that technology is changing at today it says to the customer that what you are buying is at the forefront of today's technology so it will depreciate a little slower and be a leading product a little longer. In other words you are buying a premium product in every way, design, quality of materials, engineering, production, quality control, premium components that are the leading edge of today's technology and the combination produces premium results. However, when inferior components are used but a premium price is charged, it says we don't respect our customers. They are fools that will buy just because of our brand name and we can maximize our profits by cutting corners everywhere we can, both in what can be seen and that which cannot be seen. I don't think that was the Leica of old but it certainly seems to fit the Hermes mind set of we will just decorate it differently ad the fools will pay more for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorflow Posted December 2, 2009 Share #48 Posted December 2, 2009 I think it's sad people don't care about getting full value for their money. A lot of people here seem to have money to burn and have lost touch with this concept. A $2000 point and shoot camera should have an LCD screen at least as good as as those selling for $200. We shouldn't even be debating this. It's just common sense. +1 Sadly I have to agree. Was hoping to get one to complement my M8/9, but no OVF and "low res" LCD were show-stoppers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 2, 2009 Share #49 Posted December 2, 2009 Chimps vs photogs debate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted December 2, 2009 Share #50 Posted December 2, 2009 Ricoh is the first to smack leica in the kisser ........followed by the rest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted December 2, 2009 Share #51 Posted December 2, 2009 We shouldn't even be debating this. It's just common sense. Of course! More pixels, more features, faster, cheaper... more, more... As soon as it hits the market it's outdated. That goes for just about any product, unless its features are truly classic and cannot be improved (that would have to include shutter and aperture dials). Does it matter if you can take good pictures with it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted December 2, 2009 Share #52 Posted December 2, 2009 ... A $2000 point and shoot camera should have an LCD screen at least as good as as those selling for $200. It is noticeable that all detractors and critics latch on to the 'point and shoot' label. In my book, a P&S camera leaves the photographer with very few options other than simple scene selection, self-timer, close-up button etc. At least the X1 will appeal to 'thinking' photographers who like to take control of exposure with a full range of mode choices and take advantage of a potentially stunning lens. There is an abundance of cheaper P&S digital cameras, possibly with enhanced screens, which should appeal more to those eternal critics. Determining cost/benefit is entirely a personal matter and cannot be broadcast as a universal solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptu Posted December 2, 2009 Share #53 Posted December 2, 2009 +1 Sadly I have to agree. Was hoping to get one to complement my M8/9, but no OVF and "low res" LCD were show-stoppers. OVF missing point I understand. But do you/people watch pictures from the camera lcd? I at least use it to frame the pic and nowadays memory cards are not expensive thus you can shoot 3-10 frames to pick the best using computer screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted December 2, 2009 Share #54 Posted December 2, 2009 Chimps vs photogs debate? ...looks very much like it from where I'm sitting... Excuses, excuses... Of course one simply cannot take decent photos without the very last word in, er, wrist straps. That's a dealbreaker for me and no mistake... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted December 2, 2009 Share #55 Posted December 2, 2009 Ricoh is the first to smack leica in the kisser ........followed by the rest I really don't agree... to me, they are toally different. One is a fixed lens wide- angle camera with a refreshingly no frills design... the other is a interchangable lens unit with a normal lens or zoom lens with a frankenstein style design. Totally different to me. I'm not even interested in the Ricoh to be honest. Now, if Rocoh made a GR IV with the same sensor as the Leica...then we could start to compare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 2, 2009 Share #56 Posted December 2, 2009 ...looks very much like it from where I'm sitting... You're not sitting on the right branch apparently. http://tinyurl.com/yguyoze Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
proenca Posted December 2, 2009 Share #57 Posted December 2, 2009 I do sometimes put a roll of film in my old M4-P. Do you know how small that screen is? It's a ZERO PIXEL SCREEN! Yes, it has so few pixels it simply isn't there! Curiously, it does still manage to take pictures. Please, while we are on those really important issues, can we also have a thorough and preferrably impassioned discussion of the musical qualities of the chimes in various digital cameras? I am sure some of them too are unacceptable -- to some, at least. The old man from the Age of Wall Screens ROTFL Lars... love your posts Incidently, I have a M8 and also have a MP which has 0 pixel screen and does take pictures like a charm. when it doesnt, its entirely my fault, not because of the absent LCD screen. Lets not remember that compromises have to be made : maybe they put a lower grade LCD instead of a lower grade optic, which is excellent by the way. Maybe they put a not so speedy AF system for a more rugged body. Heck, the camera is not out yet. They made their choices. The market will ditacte or not the sucess of the camera. To be honest, looks a fine camera to me. Great lens, great sensor. The rest is just scenery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorflow Posted December 2, 2009 Share #58 Posted December 2, 2009 OVF missing point I understand. But do you/people watch pictures from the camera lcd? I at least use it to frame the pic and nowadays memory cards are not expensive thus you can shoot 3-10 frames to pick the best using computer screen. I am assuming one will need the screen for manual focusing which I still prefer over AF in many instances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptu Posted December 2, 2009 Share #59 Posted December 2, 2009 I am assuming one will need the screen for manual focusing which I still prefer over AF in many instances. True true. I have to admit that is a good point. I am going to miss the manual focus of my dslr, but goig to love the size of X1 compared to it:) well, can't have all they say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted December 2, 2009 Share #60 Posted December 2, 2009 The ricoh and the X1 are not that different those that select the ricoh will be for the 50mm focal length and that has a big fan base. Others will opt for the 35mm both cameras will play in the same market ....... the zoom will be a sideline for many as they will have their eyes on ricoh producing a 28mm or 35mm unit in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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