M9 FirmWare Update Suggestions Thread...

[mjm6]

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Geoff,

 

I the soft mode, I believe there are still two levels of the exposure button. The first is the wakeup, and the second the exposure. So the wakeup could also act as exposure lock as well.

 

My complaint with having all of the exposure compensation modes permanent is that they all force you to defeat it after shooting.

 

If a person is going to do a whole lot of shooting on the same lighitng conditions, then it makes sense that the compensation be permanent. However, if you are shooting a lot of changing light conditions (backlight, sidelight, back to backlight, etc.) it would be more convienent to simplu have it reset to '0' after each shoot so that the next shot is mentally startting at '0'.

 

Since the display doesn't have the exposure compensation shown (like the Canon camera, where the rear dial originated) it's not easy to keep track of what the exposure compensation is at any given time, and thus, at least one of the quick setting modes ought to be a temporary mode.

 

---Michael

[jaapv]

Which brings me back to my hobbyhorse: Exposure compensation, especially for a single shot, it much easier to accomplish in manual mode...

[mjm6]

Yes,

 

Except that the camera doesn't give you enough information to make that all happen in the viewfinder directly. You need to first find the 'correct' exposure and then deviate from there. It works like the old F3's used to, which I'd always considered unfortunately deficient, when in the age of match-needle, the relative position of the needles told you all you needed to know.

 

I prefer to use a priority mode and then do exposure compensation to skip the first step.

 

---Michael

[Jamie Roberts]

Yes,

 

Except that the camera doesn't give you enough information to make that all happen in the viewfinder directly. You need to first find the 'correct' exposure and then deviate from there. It works like the old F3's used to, which I'd always considered unfortunately deficient, when in the age of match-needle, the relative position of the needles told you all you needed to know.

 

I prefer to use a priority mode and then do exposure compensation to skip the first step.

 

---Michael

 

Forget about the "correct" exposure if you're then "deviating;" the "correct" exposure obviously isn't in the slightest

 

So what Jaap is saying is right: in manual you can get the right exposure for your subject. You just have to know how the meter works (which is pretty straightforward with a digicam, because you can test andcheck).

 

If you really want to go all out, you can check your M9's meter (which I'm assuming is a lot like the M8's, to be sure) against an external meter and see how it responds in terms of over and underexposure with well known exposure conditions.

 

After you've done that, all you need to do then, in M mode under shooting conditions, is understand where the meter will place a value (normally most significant highlight / upper quartertone information with digital--but not always... sometimes you care more about shadows) and shoot. Yes, you need to make a decision, but it's far better IMO (and faster with a little practice) than globally applying a "compensation factor."

 

Doesn't matter if the light is changing a bit but of course if you're running from a dark cave to sunlight and back it gets tricky. Of course, auto mode and EC will also be "wrong" in those conditions as well as often as they're right.

[Nicoleica]

 

As for the B mode comment. You are correct, of course, that the vast majority of folks don't need exposures longer than 4 min.

 

However, this is just the same at Leica putting 1/20000th sec on the dial, but when you select this option the camera actually shoots at 1/5000. It would be fraud.

 

They have put a "B" on the dial, but the camera doesn't have a "B" mode. It has a 4 min exposure labeled as "B". Leica shouldn't just get to re-define these things as they see fit - if it says B it should be a user controlled on/off shutter, or they should take the B off.

 

Sorry, but I disagree with you here. As far as I am aware 'B' has never stood for unlimited time exposures. 'B' has always been intended for short time exposes of a few seconds to a couple of minutes at most. I was taught that 'B' means 'Brief'. (Or 'Bulb' if you prefer.) Cameras intended to make longer exposures had shutters with a 'T' (Time) setting.

 

In an electronic camera such as an 'M8' or 'M9', this is even more significant, as the battery drain holding the shutter open in 'B' would become significant after a few minutes. Not to mention the risk of heat damage to the CCD. If I recall correctly, electronic film cameras that have a 'T' mode use a mechanical locking system on the shutter so as to reduce battery drain.

 

I don't see how you can realistically complain about this.

[jaapv]

Yes,

 

Except that the camera doesn't give you enough information to make that all happen in the viewfinder directly. You need to first find the 'correct' exposure and then deviate from there. It works like the old F3's used to, which I'd always considered unfortunately deficient, when in the age of match-needle, the relative position of the needles told you all you needed to know.

 

I prefer to use a priority mode and then do exposure compensation to skip the first step.

 

---Michael

Actually, it does give enough information.First know your metering field. You start at "A" and set your shutterspeed/aperture combination by working the aperture and if needed ISO (auto-Iso off obviously) Then you know your shutterspeed. Turn the speed dial until you see your red dot. That is the same shutterspeed. Now you can compensate with aperture or speed dial, as desired. The camera even helps you there: red-dot exposure on, red dot+triangle: half-stop off. Just triangle one stop or more off. You do all this with the camera at your eye.It takes longer to write it down than to do it, it takes fractions of a second and becomes a second nature.

[mjm6]

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Jaap,

 

That's my point, you have to first find the red dot, and then adjust from there. With a match needle, you never needed to do this, as you already knew what the current settings on the camera resulted in with respect to the meter's 'correct' exposure.

 

Ultimately, I prefer to determine what my ideal exposure is in the scene, lock the exposure and recompose (which is why I would like the camera to lock exposure when in soft mode). However, when the scene won't allow that kind of adjustment, it would be more direct to dial an exposure compensation on the back dial for that shot and then allow it to reset for then next shot.

 

Since I'm very comfortable working with a fully manual camera I can easily adapt to whatever method the camera offers, but I can't help but think that the temporary assignment that they originally had in the camera (per the manual) would have worked better than a permanent exposure compensation assignment when using the shutter/dial setting.

 

Horses for courses.

 

 

---Michael

[MacSpikes]

1. make zoom work properly when reviewing images

2. make reviewing images faster

3. make Mass Storage work with Mac OSX

4. add lossless DNG compression

 

and voila: perfect camera!

[doug_m]

1. Make sure the camera never locks up when using delete all.

2. Faster SD card formatting

3. Put Cornerfix like features in the firmware

4. Allow for a "UV/IR filter use on M9" option

5 Make sure the sensor clean function is working properly at all times on all cameras

6 Longer battery life

7. Much better auto white balance

 

I think the M9 is great but making these firmware fixes might just make it perfect.

[jaapv]

Jaap,

 

That's my point, you have to first find the red dot, and then adjust from there. With a match needle, you never needed to do this, as you already knew what the current settings on the camera resulted in with respect to the meter's 'correct' exposure.

 

Ultimately, I prefer to determine what my ideal exposure is in the scene, lock the exposure and recompose (which is why I would like the camera to lock exposure when in soft mode). However, when the scene won't allow that kind of adjustment, it would be more direct to dial an exposure compensation on the back dial for that shot and then allow it to reset for then next shot.

 

Since I'm very comfortable working with a fully manual camera I can easily adapt to whatever method the camera offers, but I can't help but think that the temporary assignment that they originally had in the camera (per the manual) would have worked better than a permanent exposure compensation assignment when using the shutter/dial setting.

 

Horses for courses.

 

 

---Michael

To be fair, they could have both. A permanent one through menu and a per-shot one with the current method.

[hoppyman]

Geoff,

 

I the soft mode, I believe there are still two levels of the exposure button. The first is the wakeup, and the second the exposure. So the wakeup could also act as exposure lock as well.

 

My complaint with having all of the exposure compensation modes permanent is that they all force you to defeat it after shooting.

 

If a person is going to do a whole lot of shooting on the same lighitng conditions, then it makes sense that the compensation be permanent. However, if you are shooting a lot of changing light conditions (backlight, sidelight, back to backlight, etc.) it would be more convienent to simplu have it reset to '0' after each shoot so that the next shot is mentally startting at '0'.

 

Since the display doesn't have the exposure compensation shown (like the Canon camera, where the rear dial originated) it's not easy to keep track of what the exposure compensation is at any given time, and thus, at least one of the quick setting modes ought to be a temporary mode.

 

---Michael

Michael, that is so regarding the button. I should have been more precise. We are both talking about the middle position of course which is exposure lock in Normal and release in Soft. I can see that exposure lock at the wake position could create problems though.

I don't know the reason for the late change to make all of the compensation permanent. You could make a case to have one mode temporary. Actually you did

 

Keep in mind that you do get a flashing indication in the finder that compensation is set, so a glance will tell you. Of course if you are shooting deliberately then you can revert to the traditional exposure lock method by using the normal mode.

 

If you are shooting a lot of changing conditions where you need to vary compensation, then I guess you are aware and you can be conscious to thumb that setting wheel around. You get the display of how much comp you are dialling in without taking the camera from you eye. As Jaap says using manual speeds is effective of course.

 

By the way I just shot my last few frames with +.3 dialled in accidentally I think I'll go and take my own suggestions

As I've used this more, I've now set the comp to work with setting dial and button together. I get the convenience of quick adjustment while the camera is to my eye but no accidental activation. Works for me anyhow

[adan]

Hey, if I had my druthers, the M9 viewfinder would have a match-LED readout - the whole range of shutter speeds (or at least 1/4000 to 1 sec + "B") across the bottom in small red figures with the set speed brighter or flashing, and a red dot above the meter's idea of the "correct" speed. Twirl the dial or aperture until the bright number and the dot are aligned - or misaligned by the number of stops/speeds/steps you like. In auto the dot disappears and you just see the set speed brighter/flashing.

 

Konica Hexar RF did this.

 

But it would be a fairly substantial hardware upgrade - new LED panel and optics - not firmware.

[gpleica]

I have made the mistake a couple of times now of replacing a manual setting (non-coded) lens on my M9 with a coded lens, forgetting to change the profile. What actually happens? Are the images completely useless?

[AnakChan]

Sorry, but I disagree with you here. As far as I am aware 'B' has never stood for unlimited time exposures. 'B' has always been intended for short time exposes of a few seconds to a couple of minutes at most. I was taught that 'B' means 'Brief'. (Or 'Bulb' if you prefer.) Cameras intended to make longer exposures had shutters with a 'T' (Time) setting.

 

In an electronic camera such as an 'M8' or 'M9', this is even more significant, as the battery drain holding the shutter open in 'B' would become significant after a few minutes. Not to mention the risk of heat damage to the CCD. If I recall correctly, electronic film cameras that have a 'T' mode use a mechanical locking system on the shutter so as to reduce battery drain.

 

I don't see how you can realistically complain about this.

Hmmm...purely from a definition perspective (not practical) I have to admit I'm with Steve on this...Bulb is for as long as photographer, not by the camera system, the environment around it, etc.

 

Of course Wikipedia isn't always correct but the definition from there is as below

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulb_(photography) :-

 

The term "bulb" is a reference to old-style pneumatically actuated shutters; squeezing an air bulb would open the shutter and releasing the bulb would close it. According to the Focal Encyclopedia of Photography[3]: "BULB EXPOSURE (. Another term for a brief exposure—in which the shutter remains open only so long as the shutter release is held down. The word originated with the early pneumatic shutter release."Practically, there are issues you've listed above for digital cameras; and even for film, there's reciprocity failures to take into consideration. But again though, Bulb exposure by definition should lie in the hands of the photographer.

 

My 2 yen worth....

[Steve Fines]

Hmmm...purely from a definition perspective (not practical) I have to admit I'm with Steve on this...Bulb is for as long as photographer, not by the camera system, the environment around it, etc.

 

Of course Wikipedia isn't always correct but the definition from there is as below

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulb_(photography) :-

 

The term "bulb" is a reference to old-style pneumatically actuated shutters; squeezing an air bulb would open the shutter and releasing the bulb would close it. According to the Focal Encyclopedia of Photography[3]: "BULB EXPOSURE (. Another term for a brief exposure—in which the shutter remains open only so long as the shutter release is held down. The word originated with the early pneumatic shutter release."Practically, there are issues you've listed above for digital cameras; and even for film, there's reciprocity failures to take into consideration. But again though, Bulb exposure by definition should lie in the hands of the photographer.

 

My 2 yen worth....

 

I was thinking about some of the cameras I've owned. Canon A1's, Leica M6, Pentax K1000's, Nikon N90 and F3, Canon D60, 10D, 20D, 40D, 1Dsm2, 1Dsm3, Nikon D3x, D300, D300s - on every one of them the B mode means that I control the shutter duration.

 

No need to flog this further. If there is a reason the M9 CCD cannot work for more than 250 sec continuously then fine. That is a limitation of the camera - a limitation that other digital cameras have competently overcome eight years ago.

 

If it is just in the firmware and could easily be turned off to make the camera worked like every other camera I've owned since the late 70's that would be better.

 

Don't get me wrong - I like my M9. But it isn't perfect.

[FrankA]

1. The option to input aperture into a menu choice and have the exif pick it up instead of the camera guessing at it.

2. And all of the above

[hoppyman]

FrankA, what is it that you are asking for there? You want to be able to manually enter the actual aperture used for individual shots??? Or you just want to be able to input any aperture of your choice in combination with a focal length? The existing selections each have individual firmware corrections but those are not a linear set based purely on aperture/focal length.

The info's not there primarily for EXIF data but to apply the corrections. Not unreasonably, Leica only has provided corrections for Leica lenses (and only those that were sold without coding).

[jlam]

Steve - be careful what you ask for - have you ever seen how much noise shows up in long digital exposures if there is not a dark-field exposure afterwards? You'd end up with way more "stars" than you bargained for - none of them with trails.

 

I've seen a lot of people doing the darkframe subtraction using software in postprocessing. They usually have a bunch of pre-made darkframes taken across a range of different temperatures, ISOs and durations. That saves a lot of time during the actual shooting, and allow stacking without causing dashed-line effect in the star trails.

 

Joseph

[250swb]

Ok, here's one that I don't think comes in the 'please re-design the camera just for me' category, but a niggling fault that perhaps could be addressed in a Firmware update.

 

You have your camera on a tripod, set to 'Exp Bracket', with cable release, you make an exposure and it fires off the required number of shots, and thats fine. But, you stand waiting for the light to change and the camera goes to sleep, which shouldn't be a big problem, except when you do press the release it only makes one exposure after immediately coming out of sleep mode. You need to press the release again for the bracketed sequence to fire.

 

When standing around waiting you'd want the camera to go to sleep to save battery power, its just waking up seems like a big surprise for it. So I'd like the camera to do a quick diagnostic of what settings are implemented in the menu before wasting a token shot. I'd also point out the token shot isn't a problem in itself unless you are working somewhere noisy and can't hear the camera. In which case you have no idea other than trawling through 'Review' each time if you got an exposure bracket sequence, or just one shot. It would be a problem for deaf people as well.

 

Steve

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[250swb]

And one other thing.

 

I haven't found yet a good reason for needing the 'left' and 'right' arrow buttons in any menu, other than for reviewing an image. So I'd like it possible to assign these to exposure compensation -/+ . Other than setting it in the 'Set' menu I find using the dial for exposure compensation awkward (I must need an extra joint in my thumb) and particularly in cold weather or with gloves on.

 

Steve