M9 Firmware Update - When and what may we expect?

[stunsworth]

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I had no idea at the time that it might come in handy to have some examples, and I simply reformatted the card in another camera once I'd handed the M9 back to the lad who lent it to me.

 

...the blacks were clearly not black, and had a noticeable magenta tinge. Enough so that the client pointed it out, noting the comparison with the 5DII shots.

 

So there were two of you on the shoot and the client was judging the colour balance by looking at the rear screen on the M9 before you handed it back?

[jaapv]

To be fair, I too think there is a minor IR shift in extreme circumstances. I think a simple balancing click might produce a bit of a green shift in some other blacks, but most of us would not notice it. However, going into Lab, a minor manipulation of the "A" contrast curve will eliminate any problem imo. If one does a lot of critical work, one could even make an action out of it., or batch-process. Or get an IR filter on I suppose, as I tend to do with other digital cameras as well.

[SJP]

Re: the formatting of the SD(HC) cards in the camera, I do not have an M9, but with the M8 if have happily used 3-4 SD(HC) cards without formatting them at all (except for first time use). All I do is open the folder on the card with the images cntrl-A, cntrl-X move to the destination folder cntrl-V (i.e. select-all, cut, paste). This works like a charm => 0 problems over the past 2 years or so.

 

It is just a memory card. It does not need reformatting every time. Does anyone reformat their memory stick every time it is used?

[Guest EarlBurrellPhoto]

So there were two of you on the shoot and the client was judging the colour balance by looking at the rear screen on the M9 before you handed it back?

 

No, I was shooting with a 5DII and the M9 a colleague loaned me for a week in exchange for some Canon lenses of mine he needed for a job. The client and I were looking at the shots on my LaCie monitor. I handed the M9 back a few days later when my colleague returned. It was my SD card and I kept it and reformatted it (and never saved the files on my HD). I'd no idea it might be good to keep those shots for documentation. I'd proved the M9 would not work for my purposes and therefore would not buy one at present, and those shots were just a reminder of time wasted. For less-demanding use, the unfiltered M9 was not unacceptable, although by then I was looking for the IR shift and did find it here and there.

 

 

 

To be fair, I too think there is a minor IR shift in extreme circumstances.

 

I hardly think shooting a theatre performance qualifies as "extreme circumstances", nor is a shift "minor" if the client looks at 200+ shots and says "The black clothing have a purple tint. That's unacceptable."

 

going into Lab, a minor manipulation of the "A" contrast curve will eliminate any problem imo. If one does a lot of critical work, one could even make an action out of it., or batch-process.

That's fine when one's time does not = money. Regardless whether I pay someone else to do post, or do it myself instead of shooting another job, it's a profit-killer.

 

Or get an IR filter on I suppose, as I tend to do with other digital cameras as well.

I don't tend, or need, to do it with my Canons. Not the last two generations for sure (5D, 1DS-II, 5DII, 1DS-III) and I don't recall having the issue with the 1DS-I either, but it's been a long while.

 

And indeed fitting an IR front filter would seem a logical and simple solution in those circumstances, which in fact I tried after-the-fact since I've no shortage of IR filters :DHowever that then requires Cornerfixing anything shot with a 50mm and under, because there is no in-camera correction in the M9...bringing us right back round to what I said in the first place vis a vis wanting such a menu item in a firmware update.

 

I'm not a chip engineer, so I bow to the expertise of those who say it isn't an easy do, but I look ascanse at the notion that it is "impossible". So was a full-frame M9, according to Leica as little as little as 6 months prior its debut

[Guest EarlBurrellPhoto]

So there were two of you on the shoot and the client was judging the colour balance by looking at the rear screen on the M9 before you handed it back?

 

No, I was shooting with a 5DII and the M9 a colleague loaned me for a week in exchange for some Canon lenses of mine he needed for a job. The client and I were looking at the shots on my LaCie monitor. I handed the M9 back a few days later when my colleague returned. For less-demanding use, the unfiltered M9 was not unacceptable, although by then I was looking for the IR shift and did find it here and there.

 

 

 

To be fair, I too think there is a minor IR shift in extreme circumstances.

 

I hardly think shooting a theatre performance qualifies as "extreme circumstances", nor is a shift "minor" if the client looks at 200+ shots and says "The black clothing have a purple tint. That's unacceptable."

 

going into Lab, a minor manipulation of the "A" contrast curve will eliminate any problem imo. If one does a lot of critical work, one could even make an action out of it., or batch-process.

 

That's fine when one's time does not = money. Regardless whether I pay someone else to do post, or do it myself instead of shooting another job, it's a profit-killer.

 

Or get an IR filter on I suppose, as I tend to do with other digital cameras as well.

 

I don't tend, or need, to do it with my Canons. Not the last two generations for sure (5D, 1DS-II, 5DII, 1DS-III) and I don't recall having the issue with the 1DS-I either, but it's been a long while.

 

And indeed fitting an IR front filter would seem a logical and simple solution in those circumstances, which in fact I tried after-the-fact since I've no shortage of IR filters :DHowever that then requires Cornerfixing anything shot with a 50mm and under, because there is no in-camera correction in the M9...bringing us right back round to what I said in the first place vis a vis wanting such a menu item in a firmware update.

 

I'm not a chip engineer, so I bow to the expertise of those who say it isn't an easy do, but I look ascanse at the notion that it is "impossible". So was a full-frame M9, according to Leica as little as little as 6 months prior its debut

[UliWer]

 

 

I hardly think shooting a theatre performance qualifies as "extreme circumstances", nor is a shift "minor" if the client looks at 200+ shots and says "The black clothing have a purple tint. That's unacceptable."

 

 

 

 

Of course it would be unaceptable, if every theatre shot had a purple tint. Though I have seen here - in this forum - some theatre or similar shots taken indoors with projected artificial light and black fabrics which had no purple or magenta or whatsoever shift. That's the reason why I asked for examples. I think Sean Reid showed some of these in his test. I am sure we will see more of it, if it proves to be a real issue.

[rosuna]

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Roey - you may be quite right.

 

And actually, improved battery life is one of the firmware "upgrades" that Stephan Daniel specifically said Leica is already working on (in his Luminous-Landscape video interview). Adjusting the code to make more efficient use of processing.

 

Would be possible to have a new battery with the same form but with more capacity?

[rosuna]

To be fair, I too think there is a minor IR shift in extreme circumstances. I think a simple balancing click might produce a bit of a green shift in some other blacks, but most of us would not notice it. However, going into Lab, a minor manipulation of the "A" contrast curve will eliminate any problem imo. If one does a lot of critical work, one could even make an action out of it., or batch-process. Or get an IR filter on I suppose, as I tend to do with other digital cameras as well.

 

Do you have cyan drifts on those cameras using IR filters (on the lens)?

[jaapv]

No, those are DSLRs,no problems in that department.

[rosuna]

Yes, but... you are overfiltering the IR... using wide angles should produce some cyan drift at the borders... isn't?

[jaapv]

How can one overfilter:confused:. Cut out the IR and it is cut out -you cannot go beyond 100% - and there are no problems with incidence angle.

[chris_tribble]

Of course it would be unaceptable, if every theatre shot had a purple tint. Though I have seen here - in this forum - some theatre or similar shots taken indoors with projected artificial light and black fabrics which had no purple or magenta or whatsoever shift. That's the reason why I asked for examples. I think Sean Reid showed some of these in his test. I am sure we will see more of it, if it proves to be a real issue.

 

Seconded. I've done enough work with artificially lit blacks to feel that this is a non-issue - and I've done a lot with the 5D2 alongside the M9.

 

Earl - so far I feel you've made a big thing about this but not shown us any evidence (and I'm looking at my images on a colour calibrated system using a Lacie reference monitor....) ...

 

Looking at these as JPEGS, if anything, the colour seems more problematic on the Canon... (the first shot) ... Isn't one of the truths that we have to deal with that colour under variable artificial light's a variable phenomenon? I've got friends who do nothing but shoot cars for a living. A lot of their skill has little to do with handling a camera and everything to do with controlling the light sources...

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[wlaidlaw]

Would be possible to have a new battery with the same form but with more capacity?

 

Rosuna,

 

If there is a will at Leica to do it - yes certainly you could have a battery with increased capacity. Lithium polymer and other battery technologies are advancing apace, driven by smartphone and automotive requirements. My guess is in a few years time, we may be using micro fuel cells running on cigarette lighter gas (Butane), in things like larger (non-pocket) cameras and LED torches. Next to zero recharging time, taking just a few seconds to refill with gas.

 

Wilson

[rosuna]

Rosuna,

 

If there is a will at Leica to do it - yes certainly you could have a battery with increased capacity. Lithium polymer and other battery technologies are advancing apace, driven by smartphone and automotive requirements. My guess is in a few years time, we may be using micro fuel cells running on cigarette lighter gas (Butane), in things like larger (non-pocket) cameras and LED torches. Next to zero recharging time, taking just a few seconds to refill with gas.

 

Wilson

 

Butane... or hydrogen...

 

Olympus had a patent on these technologies related to batteries...

[hoppyman]

Rosuna,

 

If there is a will at Leica to do it - yes certainly you could have a battery with increased capacity. Lithium polymer and other battery technologies are advancing apace, driven by smartphone and automotive requirements. My guess is in a few years time, we may be using micro fuel cells running on cigarette lighter gas (Butane), in things like larger (non-pocket) cameras and LED torches. Next to zero recharging time, taking just a few seconds to refill with gas.

 

Wilson

!!!!!! I can see the forum posts now. My M10 spontaneously combusted after the fuel cell exploded! I think the laser rangefinder set it off or maybe the zooming frame lines. The flames still have a magenta tint to them. Clearly we need better fire sealing in the M11. If I'd had LiveView I would have seen the flames much earlier. Some of these new 4 Terabyte SD cards take more than an hour to format.

If the camera had a bellows and Visoflex 'V' there would be room for an internal fire suppression system next to the electronics in the lens and activated by the oscillation rate of the vibrating sensor.

[wlaidlaw]

!!!!!! I can see the forum posts now. My M10 spontaneously combusted after the fuel cell exploded! I think the laser rangefinder set it off or maybe the zooming frame lines. The flames still have a magenta tint to them. Clearly we need better fire sealing in the M11. If I'd had LiveView I would have seen the flames much earlier. Some of these new 4 Terabyte SD cards take more than an hour to format.

If the camera had a bellows and Visoflex 'V' there would be room for an internal fire suppression system next to the electronics in the lens and activated by the oscillation rate of the vibrating sensor.

 

Had the designers at work already on fuel cell M.

 

Wilson

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[jonoslack]

Had the designers at work already on fuel cell M.

 

Wilson

 

rofl

Lovely Wilson

[mjh]

My guess is in a few years time, we may be using micro fuel cells running on cigarette lighter gas (Butane), in things like larger (non-pocket) cameras and LED torches.

The use of fuel cell technology for this kind of devices has been promised to be just around the corner for years now, with nothing substantial actually forthcoming. It may still be the future, but I’ve stopped holding my breath.

[mjh]

Yes, but... you are overfiltering the IR... using wide angles should produce some cyan drift at the borders... isn't?

There is no ‘overfiltering’ of IR … DSLRs have longer flange distances, reducing the variation in the incident angle and thus any issues with cyan or red drift.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[rosuna]

There is no ‘overfiltering’ of IR … DSLRs have longer flange distances, reducing the variation in the incident angle and thus any issues with cyan or red drift.

 

Ok, thanks. That's why the M8 had that cyan drift then...