cbretteville Posted November 30, 2006 Share #21 Posted November 30, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) John, We have to hope for this to dawn on Leica, the recent M8 debacle doesn't really fill me with hope. Another thing is that what one of us know, all of us know. Issues and workarounds are communicated, litteraly, with the speed of light. There is no an option to say "first we heard of it". This reality can be very diciplining. - Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 30, 2006 Posted November 30, 2006 Hi cbretteville, Take a look here Digilux 2 Repair in solms. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted November 30, 2006 Share #22 Posted November 30, 2006 John,We have to hope for this to dawn on Leica, the recent M8 debacle doesn't really fill me with hope. Another thing is that what one of us know, all of us know. Issues and workarounds are communicated, litteraly, with the speed of light. There is no an option to say "first we heard of it". This reality can be very diciplining. - Carl I must say the word debacle seems a bit strong. Three things went wrong and they were connected. First Leica was really taken by surprise by the Magenta Storm, which in retrospect I can more or less understand as nobody ever took Nikon to task for exactly the same thing.Then Imacon did not expect this, as their MF backs have the same IR sensitivity and studio pro's never even commented on it, they just screwed on the appropriate filter, and finally, based on this lack of anticipation, B&W and Heliopan did not stock up for the ensuing filter demand. The other issue, sensor spillover , can only be described as an initial electronic glitch that cannot be ruled out in a new product. I am sure the possibility of a recall was vectored in by Leica as a possible side-effect of the launch, as any sensible digital camera manufacturer (or any other high-tech product for that matter) will do. So - unfortunate - yes. But a debacle? Hardly. I understand the camera is still vastly backorded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted November 30, 2006 Share #23 Posted November 30, 2006 All this possible D2 sensor failure is worrying me as I'm due to go on a major 5 week holiday next week! Fingers crossed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted November 30, 2006 Share #24 Posted November 30, 2006 I must say the word debacle seems a bit strong. ...So - unfortunate - yes. But a debacle? Hardly. I understand the camera is still vastly backorded. Ok, I could perhaps have used another word, fine tuning the language is not allways that easy when it isn't your native one. And my comments relate to not ony to recent events, but to a series of non answered emails, never getting a straight answer when they finally do and so on and so forth. Had Leica dealt their cards differently, I would have ordered an M8 and become an evangelist. As it is now, I still don't know. My issues is with the way Leica has marketed the M8 as a step natural next step in the M evolution. The streaking and green blobs is an early production thing, fair enough. Same with the AWB. The IR sesitivity and what to do about it can't have been news to Leica, why was this not communicated to the market prior to or at the launch? Their eagerness to keep people from walking away with files from the preproduction cameras makes much more sence now than it did two months ago. The M8 is said to be compatible with most M lenses, well not exactly true if you a) require an IR block filter and require coding as filters either do not fit or codes aren't available for a lot of the older glass. These facts should have been up front information and not some "foot-in-mouth-desease" comment that comes after the launch - in which case it would have been much more acceptable. Now they claim that adding a filter improves the optical quality - it is another two glass to air surfaces, it cannot improve the optical formula of a lens no matter how well coated the filter is. The filter fixes one problem and introduces another, a cyan shift. Not exactly an ideal solution. Like someone else here remarked a while back: it is a Leica tax - having to buy new filters and code all lenses ($240/€185 each in my country). Nikon had a magenta cast issue, but it has, AFAIK, been fixed - in camera. As to how much grief they got from it I don't know and really don't care. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flatfour Posted November 30, 2006 Share #25 Posted November 30, 2006 John - i fear you are right about Dell equipment but that isn't necessarily true of all. My son has his own computer business and a support company. They now only install HP/Compaq equipment as the failure rate has been very low with this brand. Of course there will always be software bugs but it does seem since he has standardised on HP/Compaq that hardware problems are rare. I have just bought an HPB9180 printer and it was a very smooth and faultless installation. The printer is built like a rock . I was tempted to purchase an Epson 2400 but I have experienced so many problems with our college one, and heard so many sorrow stories that I decided to wait for the HP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasl.se Posted November 30, 2006 Share #26 Posted November 30, 2006 I've been eyeing the D2 at online auctions, however these recent failure reports are rather discouraging. 3 months turnaround time is admittedly somewhat disheartening as well. I will pay the premium price for a Leica, because of the reputation of the company; and because I want to support Leica Camera so that they may be around in the future: somewhere down the line I know I want a pro or semi-pro grade Leica camera and lens, capable of yielding the intangible Leica look. My Leica pipe dream is not so much a particular camera (although like everybody else I have wishlists, not least for a D2 successor) as that in maybe 5 or certainly 10 and 20 years time, they are the digital euqivalent of what they have been for generations in film photography: excellence in quality and support of their products. I would hardly believe that Leica doesn't share such vision. Still early days in the digital era, but when these days are gone hopefully people will still slap "don't laugh, it's paid for" stickers on their Leicas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmo Posted November 30, 2006 Share #27 Posted November 30, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just received my D2 back today. All in all it was away for 5,5 weeks. The works listed as executed are - general check-up / dismantling / changing circuit / testing. Handed it in with my local photoshop (though not a Leica dealer) where it was collected by the Belgian Leica rep. and today got a phonecall that it was back ready for collection. No costs at all not even shipping costs. Luckilly I still had my D1 to help me through these weeks of waiting. Regards Gerd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisDIGILUX2 Posted November 30, 2006 Share #28 Posted November 30, 2006 Hello everybody! my turn to have problems with my D2: i am in Argentina. My D2 started today to behave strangely, but it is difficult to say if it is the shutter, the aperture or the electronic: le LCD screen is overexposed (almost white) while the picture is (strongly) underexposed. I usually use automatic speed and manual aperture. I moved to "full manual", and here what i found: - if i take several pictures of the same item, constant aperture, varying speed, exposure is constant - if i take several pictures of the same item, constant speed, varying aperture, exposure is normal (from underexposed to overexposed) From this is i concluded that my problem was the shutter speed.... but another test, with automatic speed, shows almost white LCD screen with red 1/4000 shutter speed, inside the house (!) as if i were under the sun... if i take the picture, it is strongly underexposed in this case. Does anybody know if there is a "reset" procedure to "clean up" its electronic brain? Thank you! chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flatfour Posted December 1, 2006 Share #29 Posted December 1, 2006 John - Reference Leica quality and IT support standards, we used to sell new Rolls-Royce cars and they had the worst warranty problems of all the makes. BUT the customers were so tolerant. their willingness to accept all sorts of agravations always astounded me. However when it came to paying genuine servicing bills they used to get very stroppy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted December 1, 2006 Share #30 Posted December 1, 2006 We have to hope for this to dawn on Leica, the recent M8 debacle doesn't really fill me with hope. Another thing is that what one of us know, all of us know. Issues and workarounds are communicated, litteraly, with the speed of light. There is no an option to say "first we heard of it". This reality can be very diciplining. Carl--Your English is quite good; I wouldn't even have thought it wasn't your first language if you hadn't said so. I don't object to the word "debacle," but I think your viewpoint is very much a personal one. In my opinion, Leica has handled the M8's initial difficulties quickly and admirably. They were surprised by IR sensitivity, green blobs and streaking. Within one month they had discovered the causes of the problems and established means of rectifying them. Some of us may not want to use filters, but at least Leica has said that doing so will solve the magenta cast issue. Some manufacturers apparently never bothered to tell their customers that their cameras had an IR problem. The first M8's had problems; cameras currently shipping do not--and that is after only one month. I'm content with Leica's response, but I agree with you that Leica needs to learn from this experience. I think we users might have something to learn as well. --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted December 1, 2006 Share #31 Posted December 1, 2006 Does anybody know if there is a "reset" procedure to "clean up" its electronic brain? Chris-- I don't think the camera offers a reset function. I'm curious about the matter as well, and the question has been asked several times on the forum, each time without positive response as I recall. The closest to a 'reset' is simply removing the battery for several days, but that hasn't worked for anyone who has tried it so far. In one sense, I guess that's good: The camera seems well designed, so a reset function wasn't thought necessary. But that means that when it has problems, they are not quick to fix. Sorry for your camera's incipient problems; I hope my camera isn't next on the list. --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted December 1, 2006 Share #32 Posted December 1, 2006 Howard, Thanks for the compliment . My Norwegian is suffering though as most of my writings are done in English. Anyway, I never presume to speak for anyone by my self. My biggest issue is Leica's lack of up front and honest communications about the IR issue, even now there is no information on the web in the M8 product pages that mention coding requirements and IS block filters. They do however still claim that photography with the M8 is back to basics and simplicity rules. I really can't understand why the IR block coatings couldn't have been added to the sensor filter below an anti reflex coating. Magenta casts seems to be a curse of the month. I'm figting that for B&W prints on semi gloss/luster with my inkjets as well these days - slowly getting a handle on it. The printing I mean. - Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisDIGILUX2 Posted December 1, 2006 Share #33 Posted December 1, 2006 Howard, thank you for your reply. I now know what is working and what is not: manual aperture is working, and i only have two shutter speeds, 1/30th and 1/125th (upper speeds are locked to 1/125th) This maybe an "emergency program" from Leica, in case of failure. With this, i think i'll be able to manage it for a while. I really think there should be a reset procedure and a way to update/upgrade the software without sending it back to Germany - chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdoell Posted December 2, 2006 Share #34 Posted December 2, 2006 There is a reset procedure for the LC1 which was described in this forum previously. I currently don't have time to search, but perhaps you can try yourself. It didn't work in my case because it was a hardware problem. Gerhard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fulito Posted December 2, 2006 Share #35 Posted December 2, 2006 Just for accounting, my LC1 had the same "sensor melting" problem some people have been describing in the forums (some even posted photos and they have exactly the same problem I had). This happened exactly 1 month after the warranty was exhausted. I'm trying to get it repaired under warranty by Panasonic (Spain), but they seem a bit reluctant to this. Total repair cost is 376 euro. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fulito Posted December 2, 2006 Share #36 Posted December 2, 2006 BTW, there *is* a software reset procedure for the LC1, and probably also for the D2. I read that in an LC1 service manual I purchased in the net. No clue if I would be violating any copyright if I paste it here. Any clue? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted December 2, 2006 Share #37 Posted December 2, 2006 BTW, there *is* a software reset procedure for the LC1, and probably also for the D2. I read that in an LC1 service manual I purchased in the net. No clue if I would be violating any copyright if I paste it here. Any clue? you seriously have to be kidding me Riley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisDIGILUX2 Posted December 2, 2006 Share #38 Posted December 2, 2006 I tried to find the reset procedure you are mentionning for the LC1, but neither on the forum nor on google have i been able to find it. Julio, could you be so kind to copy-paste me the description in your manual? my email is chris@zarcrom.com Thank you! - chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted December 2, 2006 Share #39 Posted December 2, 2006 Interesting. My PanaD2 sensor died of humidity (heavy reain). If it's any comfort for the Leica owners my Panasonic repair is a 8-10 weeks and will cost 380 Euro approx. Meanwhile I have my D2 - the real thing - to play with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisDIGILUX2 Posted December 2, 2006 Share #40 Posted December 2, 2006 I just read on this forum a M8 owner whose camera locked up: he removed the battery overnight and the M8 came back to life the next morning. Will tell you tomorrow if my D2 comes back as well ... - chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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