wattsy Posted November 17, 2009 Share #61 Posted November 17, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) This whole discussion got me wondering about my own 35 Summicron ASPH You were wondering about the wrong lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Hi wattsy, Take a look here M9--35 Lux or cron. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
markowich Posted November 17, 2009 Share #62 Posted November 17, 2009 i just tested the a 35 cron asph. (black) and a 35 lux asph. (titanium finish) for focus shift. strange, but i cannot dedect any in the titanium lux but there is some in the cron. i start to believe the rumors that the titanium finished lenses have smaller tolerances. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
agro Posted November 18, 2009 Share #63 Posted November 18, 2009 i just tested the a 35 cron asph. (black) and a 35 lux asph. (titanium finish) for focus shift. strange, but i cannot dedect any in the titanium lux but there is some in the cron. i start to believe the rumors that the titanium finished lenses have smaller tolerances.peter Interesting. A friendly dealer let me play with a titanium lux for a weekend. Based on results I've ordered brand new black lux. Guess what, the titanium was spot on, black one had to go back due to back focusing. Cheers Agro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted November 18, 2009 Share #64 Posted November 18, 2009 Interesting.A friendly dealer let me play with a titanium lux for a weekend. Based on results I've ordered brand new black lux. Guess what, the titanium was spot on, black one had to go back due to back focusing. Cheers Agro well, i am going to hang on to my titanium one and won't let go of it. actually, the f stop ring is quite loose but i am worried about having it tightened... peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootinglulu Posted November 18, 2009 Share #65 Posted November 18, 2009 I am recieving a new 35 Lux, from Ffordes tommorrow. Just read this thread and my fingers are firmly crossed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 18, 2009 Share #66 Posted November 18, 2009 I am recieving a new 35 Lux, from Ffordes tommorrow. Just read this thread and my fingers are firmly crossed! It's a terrific lens - even if you do have to learn to tweak the focus a wee bit if you want sharp eyes rather than ears at F4. Fingers crossed, you'll get a good one. (Incidentally, if you are not 100% happy with the lens you are entitled to return it within 7 days under the distance selling rules in the UK. Ffordes are a good dealer but in my experience you might hear a bit of a sucking noise if you ring up and ask if you can return something.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted November 18, 2009 Share #67 Posted November 18, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am completely unrepentant. I am speaking of practical photography. I have stated repeatedly that both experiments and field observation (in galleries etc.) indicate that when we visually process a picture *as a picture*, i.e. in its entirety, and not by parts, as a technical specimen, we spontaneously seek the viewing angle that corresponds to a viewing distance equal to the diagonal of the square format. So that is my criterion. What you will see, and object to, using a 7x magnifier on a one meter print while standing on your head, is your personal problem, and not mine. So, yes, my specimen of the 35 Summilux is bang on at 1.4 and does show some focus shift when stopping down (and when using a 7x magnifier etc.) The point is that I do not give a damn. You are talking of shifts that lie well inside the focusing tolerance -- that of the rangefinder, and even more your and mine own. There are people who incessantly wash their hands, suffer from bacteria panic or won't tread on the seams between paving stones too. That behaviour is neurotic. The old man from the Age of Box Cameras Lars, I am afraid to say that your assumption that other lenses perform as yours does and that any complaints about that performance are therefore niggling and ill-informed (or 'neurotic') is rather patronising to those of us who are perfectly well aware of the difference between very good quality in normal sized prints at normal viewing distances and 100% on screen. There is a good number of people here who are not fools, with more experience and analytical abilities than you credit them with, who have experienced 35 luxes with focus shift such that at F4 the point on which they chose to focus is in insufficiently sharp focus to make a decent exhibition quality print. The M8 (and even more so the M9) is perfectly capable of making a 20 x 30" print to these standards if it has good glass on it and is properly used. As, for the price of this sort of equipment, it should be. I am pleased that you either a) have a copy of this lens that only has mild focus shift such that you could exhibit the results, should anyone ask you to do so or aren't too fussy about the quality of your results but please don't assume that the rest of us fall into these categories! Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted November 18, 2009 Share #68 Posted November 18, 2009 I will echo that comment. This whole discussion got me wondering about my own 35 Summicron ASPH, so I got it out, set up a tripod, taped my lens test chart to the wall and ran tests at f2, 2.8, 4 and 5.6. The result: Yes, there is a very minute focus shift. I can see it clearly when I blow the images up 200%. However, in day to day use, is this something I am ever going to notice or care about? Absolutely not. Now I'm going back out to shoot. The Cron is known to be only very mildly afflicted. Please read the thread before encouraging Lars to wind people up! Plllleaase! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootinglulu Posted November 19, 2009 Share #69 Posted November 19, 2009 Today i recieved in the post, this bear and my new 35 Lux! I haven't had time to test the lens properly but the focus seems spot on where it matters most for me at 1.4 (bears nose). I love the look of the lens so far. I'm a happy bunny! http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2673/4117773642_6e97dd6863_b.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blatent liar Posted November 20, 2009 Share #70 Posted November 20, 2009 Late to this party as usual. Just received my 35 Lux from Ken Hansen Photographic in NYC. (what a great man)... Mounted to my M9, it is pure Bliss. Mine is Black, no focus issues, except for pilot error. This Acquisition is Used (pre-loved), but from Leica factory with one year warranty. Perhaps it had a shift for the prior owner. It likely will not end up on the used market for 30+ years, may even glue it to my M9. (weather sealed M9). My 28 asph from my M8, went to Leica Repair NJ a few months back, and has not returned. Tough substitute to buy a Body and Lens whilst Leica gets around to fixing my 28 asph. I Like this combo far better. I likely will have a 28 asph fresh from repair for sale soon. "One man's ceiling..." -M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 20, 2009 Share #71 Posted November 20, 2009 Ffordes are a good dealer but in my experience you might hear a bit of a sucking noise if you ring up and ask if you can return something. That is just a single malt interfering with a Scots accent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_n Posted November 20, 2009 Share #72 Posted November 20, 2009 Just received my new M9 today....Help me out with the right 35 lens to purchase....It appears that the 35 cron is better than the 35 lux...I hear about focus shift on the lux...Can someone explain what that is??...Based on what I read and have seen people lean more to the cron than the lux...Why is that ???Thanks In part size and usability as well as results. Like Ecar, I also use both lenses and also lean to the 35/2 ASPH even though I like the look of the Summilux more. For everyday use, get a 35 Summicron ASPH and jack up your ISO or use faster film (as in my case) to make up for the stop. It's a great lens that will never let you down. I only use the Summilux when I absolutely know I'm going to need the f1.4, otherwise the Summicron gets the nod. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted November 20, 2009 Share #73 Posted November 20, 2009 What do you want a 35 for? If it is for landscape work then does focus shift even matter? If you want clever focus selection stuff then I'd have thought on a M9 a lux-50-asph or even a cron-75-asph would be better. Personally, my lux-35 is my favourite lens on either my M8 or my M7. For landscape work I can count on sharpness right down to f1.4 (at or before dawn). LouisB For landscape workI usually would not need f1.4 f1.4 for me makes only sense if I also get 100% precise focus- Otherwise I dont have to spend that much money in a lens Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_n Posted November 20, 2009 Share #74 Posted November 20, 2009 What do you want a 35 for? If it is for landscape work then does focus shift even matter? If you want clever focus selection stuff then I'd have thought on a M9 a lux-50-asph or even a cron-75-asph would be better.Sometimes you want context even in a close-up. The shot below is from my 35 Summilux at f1.4 or very close. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/102480-m9-35-lux-or-cron/?do=findComment&comment=1124228'>More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted November 20, 2009 Share #75 Posted November 20, 2009 Dear Timothy, please note that I have never claimed to possess a Lux with unusually little focus shift, let alone none. I do think however, maybe immodestly, that I am not less proficient of focusing than the other man. And even so, I do think that most slight cases of mis-focus in actual shooting, as distinct from home laboratory tests, are pilot error. We may be reluctant to admit this, but I think we should: We are not perfect. Miserere nobis, Domine. The exception to the above, of course, is you, Timothy. But we others are not of the same ability. The old man from the Age of Brilliant Finders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted November 20, 2009 Share #76 Posted November 20, 2009 Dear Timothy, please note that I have never claimed to possess a Lux with unusually little focus shift, let alone none. I do think however, maybe immodestly, that I am not less proficient of focusing than the other man. And even so, I do think that most slight cases of mis-focus in actual shooting, as distinct from home laboratory tests, are pilot error. We may be reluctant to admit this, but I think we should: We are not perfect. Miserere nobis, Domine. The exception to the above, of course, is you, Timothy. But we others are not of the same ability. The old man from the Age of Brilliant Finders Not even a nice try I'm afraid Lars. I'll admit to as much focus error as the next man, quite possibly more. But the point about these focus shifting 35 luxes is that you can easily produce focus bracketed series that show the problem. For anyone not familiar with this process, you focus the camera as best you can on a subject about three metres away, shoot at F1.4 and then every half stop through F8. Then you repeat the experiment several times, with minute differences in focus. You then choose the shot at F1.4 where the focus was most accurate and, with a significant proportion of black 35 luxes, the shots between F2 and F4 will have the subject unacceptably out of focus, where 'acceptable' is defined, by me, as a really good quality A3 print or larger up to 20 by 30", when viewed at a distance equal to its own diagonal. What I object to in your various posts above is your accusation that various other posters here are being 'neurotic' (your word) in finding their 35 lux focus shift unacceptable. If you don't have one, then no amount of being rude to me or anyone else will make you any more qualified to comment, whichever age you come from. The fact is that as I stated above, most of us are adult and intelligent enough to know when a particular lens is giving us way more errors than our other glass. That was how I first discovered the focus shift on the 35 lux and, as I never tire of stating, Leica themselves admit it to be a characteristic of the design. Maybe you think they are neurotic too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted November 20, 2009 Share #77 Posted November 20, 2009 The fact is that as I stated above, most of us are adult and intelligent enough to know when a particular lens is giving us way more errors than our other glass. That was how I first discovered the focus shift on the 35 lux and, as I never tire of stating, Leica themselves admit it to be a characteristic of the design. Maybe you think they are neurotic too? Of course they aren't. And yes, it is characteristic, not only of the design, but of superspeed lenses generally except where specific measures have taken by the designers. For instance, my 50mm Summilux ASPH is pretty immune, while my 35mm Summicron pre-ASPH is not. Even so, none of my 35mm lenses do let me down, as long as I view the images at a reasonable distance (= print diagonal). I do understand that there are photogs who have to sell pictures to picture editors who, if they cannot find anything else to complain about, complain about 'sharpness'. (I know the breed; I have been one.) For them, slight focus shifts can be an issue. But if they were not there, the editors would find something else to complain about, within their intellectual capacity, of course. I remember that judges of photo club competitions during the 1940's and early 1950's used to complain about cropping. We common mortals have to admit that when we try to focus on moving subjects, many of our shots will be a bit off, and some totally off! Sharpness is of course relative; the claim of absolute sharpness is the excuse most often made for boring pictures. The old man from the Age When Sharp Was Sharp Enough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted November 20, 2009 Share #78 Posted November 20, 2009 I must say, for anyone who has been lusting after the Summicron Pre-Asph V.4 -- the so-called "Bokeh King"-- I found one at Keh.com for a decent price, and it is a gem of a lens. M9, ISO 80, wide open. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/102480-m9-35-lux-or-cron/?do=findComment&comment=1124578'>More sharing options...
chrism Posted November 20, 2009 Share #79 Posted November 20, 2009 Nice. I'm so glad I can get that visceral shiver of pleasure when I look at a photograph like that. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted November 21, 2009 Share #80 Posted November 21, 2009 I have loved my 35 Summilux Asph, and honestly have not had focus shift issues to speak of. I don't doubt there's some focus shift, it's just never been an issue. But much as I love the Summilux, which I am absolutely keeping, there is something about the v.4 Summicron that is special. Here's another one from today of a house, believe it or not, that overlooks the parking lot of a Safeway grocery store in NW Washington, D.C. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/102480-m9-35-lux-or-cron/?do=findComment&comment=1124819'>More sharing options...
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