M9--35 Lux or cron

[david berry]

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Just received my new M9 today....Help me out with the right 35 lens to purchase....It appears that the 35 cron is better than the 35 lux...I hear about focus shift on the lux...Can someone explain what that is??...Based on what I read and have seen people lean more to the cron than the lux...Why is that ???

Thanks

[chrism]

The 'Lux generally focuses right on when wide open, but if stopped down the plane of focus moves in affected examples of the lens. There is much argument about whether chrome lenses are better in this respect. It doesn't seem to be something easy to fix if you have an affected lens. A new design is thought to be in the works with a floating element to lessen the problem. If you don't think you will need the f1.4, the 'Cron isn't affected by focus shift as far as I know, and is said to be very sharp at all apertures. It is cheaper, smaller and lighter, but you won't get the selective focus effects quite the same at f2 if you're looking for a shallow plane of focus to isolate your subject.

I'm lucky enough to have a Lux that doesn't have the focus shift, and curious enough to have ordered a Cron today to compare. One will be sold after a bit of study (though I should have learnt by now that selling a Leica lens is usually regretted later on....)

 

Chris

[wattsy]

I've got both lenses. Pushed to sell one I'd sell the Summilux. Even though I'd used a Summicron for years with an M6 and M7, I'd forgotten just how good it was until getting an M9.

 

As far as the focus shift goes, there are loads of threads here explaining it.

[Overgaard]

Just received my new M9 today....Help me out with the right 35 lens to purchase....It appears that the 35 cron is better than the 35 lux...I hear about focus shift on the lux...Can someone explain what that is??...Based on what I read and have seen people lean more to the cron than the lux...Why is that ???

Thanks

 

The focus shift, as reported on the http://stevehuffphotos.com amongst other places, isn't that bad. Have a look at his M9 review and you will notice the focus shift probably won't be visible in most cases.

 

In my opinion Leica lenses should be used fully open, and then focus is easy. And it's where their character such as 3D effect, handling of light, selective focus and bokeh (how the unsharp areas look) come into play and make them magic.

 

I have the same considerations. I guess I'll end up with a couple of playful lenses, which are the Summilux lenses, where I can play with the magic and dreaming character. But at the same time I like the f/2 Summicron lenses for being easy to focus, and get some area in focus, while maintaining the speciality of Leica glow.

 

I like the daring play with narrow focusing and the dreamy look of unsharp areas and the bokeh it produces. But in many cases I deal with clients and end-users who might prefer sharpness and focus rather than artistic stuff.

 

So I tend to look at my future lineup as a set of possibilities: One or two artistic and daring lenses (Summilux, Noctilux types) and then sensible Summicron lenses in the rest of the field.

[markowich]

The focus shift, as reported on the http://stevehuffphotos.com amongst other places, isn't that bad. Have a look at his M9 review and you will notice the focus shift probably won't be visible in most cases.

 

In my opinion Leica lenses should be used fully open, and then focus is easy. And it's where their character such as 3D effect, handling of light, selective focus and bokeh (how the unsharp areas look) come into play and make them magic.

 

I have the same considerations. I guess I'll end up with a couple of playful lenses, which are the Summilux lenses, where I can play with the magic and dreaming character. But at the same time I like the f/2 Summicron lenses for being easy to focus, and get some area in focus, while maintaining the speciality of Leica glow.

 

I like the daring play with narrow focusing and the dreamy look of unsharp areas and the bokeh it produces. But in many cases I deal with clients and end-users who might prefer sharpness and focus rather than artistic stuff.

 

So I tend to look at my future lineup as a set of possibilities: One or two artistic and daring lenses (Summilux, Noctilux types) and then sensible Summicron lenses in the rest of the field.

 

the leica magic clearly shows up in my 5000.- euro 24mm summilux as horrible CA up to f11, right after where diffraction sets in. i am getting rather weary of 'leica magic'. it does magic on your bank account for sure but little else.

peter

[jaapv]

The alleged CA (which is very annoying) is not really CA but purple fringing in RAW conversion and in-camera jpg. It is horrible in ACR and barely noticeable in C1 latest version. It is easy to correct in post too. But I agree, it is, even if not a lens fault, a pain.

[JLV]

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Hi David,

 

I own a new cron asph with a M9 and am very happy with it , light, sharp incredibly easy to focus.

I was very tempted to get a 35 lux but as you are was afraid of this focus shift issue.

It sounds that a new 35 lux with floating elements is about to be launched.

This would solve (probably) the focus shift issue, but will this new lens keep the magic of the actual 35 lux, nobody knows..

I would certainly not buy a 35 lux new now and would wait a bit to see how things are going on.

 

All the best,

Jean-Luc

[rebelfocus]

I have the 35 Lux ASPH and really, really love it on the M9. It has a very nice character with natural colours and sharpness without being too clinical. The performance at f1.4 is of course brilliant. I haven't seen any focus-shift issues in my photography but I don't doubt that they exist for some usage patterns. It's a great everyday lens for the M9 because of the versatility the extra stop gives you in low-light and you can great fun working wide-open.

 

I have been listening to rumours that it is due an update for ages and decided to ignore them and get the current version. If they do come out with a lens with a floating element to address focus shift issues at some f-stops (i) it will probably be a bit bigger (ii) the focus might not be as smooth (iii) it will almost certainly be very expensive (iv) it won't be easy to buy for a while (v) would you want one of the early samples anyway?

[Mauribix]

the leica magic clearly shows up in my 5000.- euro 24mm summilux as horrible CA up to f11, right after where diffraction sets in. i am getting rather weary of 'leica magic'. it does magic on your bank account for sure but little else.

peter

 

Peter, are you willing to sell that lens?

[AnakChan]

Peter, are you willing to sell that lens?

Oh think he'd have to put it up for auction mate...think a few others would be interested in his lens (myself included). Hehehe!

[Ecar]

I have and use both lenses (although I'm still waiting for my M9 to arrive, but that's a different story:mad:).

 

Although I'm not a pro, my experience is similar to Thorsten's. In a nutshell:

- 35 Cron: small & unobtrusive, easy to focus, therefore great for everyday / street work;

- 35 Lux: gets used (mostly wide open, although I haven't noticed or haven't been bothered by focus shift on my copy) less than the Cron, but is unbeatable when you need the extra stop and/or want to achieve selective focus. When you get it right, it will deliver the Leica magic;

- Conclusion: if pushed hard to keep only one of these, it would be the Cron... but I'd be missing the Lux every minute. The good news is that I haven't had to choose between reason and passion (yet)...

[markowich]

Peter, are you willing to sell that lens?

 

maurizio,

sorry, but i shall get a full refund.

p

[thrice]

Yeah it's great I don't have to buy expensive optics because all the aberrations I see on film & digital are actually the fault of my RAW processor, somehow it infiltrated my film as well!

 

Forget the well established evidence and scientific theory that backs up the argument that all types of CA (including axial/longitudinal CA often called "purple fringing") are caused by the lens. I have no scientific basis but I'm sure it is the fault of the RAW processor or the sensor, after all even though it isn't bloom in any way at all (bloom doesn't look like that for those who have no experience with it). It can't be the unbelievably difficult to design/build optics of which there is no other similar lens in production. I mean, obviously Leica would have no problems building a world class unique optic that has all aberrations perfectly balanced and defies conventional optical theory.

 

Oh and of course this is a "bug" that only happens with certain lenses and varies (if even somewhat slightly) with aperture despite identical exposure.

 

Sorry for the extremely long string of sarcasm, but I can't help it when all these armchair scientist like to fly in the face of accepted optical science. Even when Leica themselves say it's CA caused by the lens

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ON TOPIC: I have the 35 lux ASPH and am very very happy with it. Mine is a chrome one but I have only used it on film, no focus shift that I have seen but then again I haven't done any tests, my shots have appeared to be in focus though.

[Mokkacream]

I have the 35 lux ASPH and am very very happy with it. Mine is a chrome one but I have only used it on film, no focus shift that I have seen but then again I haven't done any tests, my shots have appeared to be in focus though.

 

 

On film you almost don't see this effect. Nobody did care about it. But the higher resolution of the M9 made it visible. That's the reason, why there will be a new design soon. On f/1.4 there is no focusshift. So you could use this lens, if you only used f/1.4.

Doesn't make much sense to me, buying a 35 summilux for a M9 right now.

My dealer also advised me, not to do but rather to wait.

[shootinglulu]

I am looking to get the 35 Lux asph.

'R G Lewis' told me that Leica say they have no plans to upgrade the lens. Ffordes told me the same thing after they had spoken to leica.

[michali]

Last week I bought a 35mm Summilux, went to see my dealer and drop off the M8.2 for a "dreaded sensor line" issue. Had to also retrieve my M8 which he had for sale, I need a backup for Africa over the next few months. He had just received the Summilux from Leica that morning, he's a great salesman. I walked out with it, having punched a hole in the bank balance.

 

So far, I absolutely love it. Focus on both my M9 & M8 is spot on.

 

I've still got the 35mm Summarit & 35mm Summicron latest versions. I prefer the Summarit to the Summicron, I get softer creamier images with the Summarit, I find the Summicron too harsh and contrasty. I'll probably offload the Summicron, it's silver in mint condition, about 8 months old.

[yanidel]

My 35 Lux suffers from focus shift, but mainly from F2.8 to F5.6 and at close distances.

No big deal as I shoot mainly wide open. Otherwise I stop down and compensate for the shift.

So really, I would base my purchasing decision more on how/what you like to shoot (wide-open/low light/landscapes) and ergonomics (size and weight) than purely on the secondary issue of focus shift.

[jaapv]

Yeah it's great I don't have to buy expensive optics because all the aberrations I see on film & digital are actually the fault of my RAW processor, somehow it infiltrated my film as well!

 

Forget the well established evidence and scientific theory that backs up the argument that all types of CA (including axial/longitudinal CA often called "purple fringing") are caused by the lens. I have no scientific basis but I'm sure it is the fault of the RAW processor or the sensor, after all even though it isn't bloom in any way at all (bloom doesn't look like that for those who have no experience with it). It can't be the unbelievably difficult to design/build optics of which there is no other similar lens in production. I mean, obviously Leica would have no problems building a world class unique optic that has all aberrations perfectly balanced and defies conventional optical theory.

 

Oh and of course this is a "bug" that only happens with certain lenses and varies (if even somewhat slightly) with aperture despite identical exposure.

 

Sorry for the extremely long string of sarcasm, but I can't help it when all these armchair scientist like to fly in the face of accepted optical science. Even when Leica themselves say it's CA caused by the lens

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

ON TOPIC: I have the 35 lux ASPH and am very very happy with it. Mine is a chrome one but I have only used it on film, no focus shift that I have seen but then again I haven't done any tests, my shots have appeared to be in focus though.

 

Well, I can put my images where my mouth is: Summilux 24, 100% crops.

First ACR, second C1

 

Still some -real- CA, but still a dramatic difference.

 

It is caused by different algorithms in demosaicing and colour interpolation with high-resolving high-microcontrast lenses.

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[Mokkacream]

I am looking to get the 35 Lux asph.

'R G Lewis' told me that Leica say they have no plans to upgrade the lens. Ffordes told me the same thing after they had spoken to leica.

 

I do not want to offend any american dealer, but in this case it might be wiser to listen to certain german people with a very reliable and personal contact to Leica. .

 

I asked myself impartially:

Why should they tell me right now, to wait and not to buy the summilux, but go for the summicron, if I really needed a 35. Although they know, that I definitely prefered to have the summilux and also could afford it right now, because I love shooting in low light and with shallow DOF. "Doesn't matter, wait."

Because (you guess it) ...

And they told me, that they KNOW.

 

OK, I personally do not know, I do not bother either, I'm not in this business. I feel happy, if a dealer takes care of me and my wishes and spare me expensive disappointments.

 

The explanation:

The actual 35 summilux was designed, when all Leica photographers shot on film. Even though the focusshift was already known at that time, it wasn't an real issue on film. It layed within the lens's design, unfortunetally.

Because the digital M's have a much higher resolution than film, the focusshift became more evident with the M8 and much more prominent now with the M9.

 

There are two options:

1) Leica calibrates the lens at 1.4 to get the maximum performance at this aperture, but then the focusshift was more pronounced at the other apertures. Professionals and/or those who can afford it, could use the summilux for f/1.4 and the summicron for all other apertures.

 

2) Leica calibrates the lens in a way to distribute the focus imperfection over a broader range of apertures. In this case, you didn't get the maximum performance at any aperture, but the effect of focus shift was also diminshed (1) and it was not that accentuated anymore (2), because the obvious decrease in performance from 1.4 to 2 was leveled (psychology:)).

 

That's the reason, why the actual 35 summilux comes with a calibration as described under 2). It doesn't get that obvious that way and most photographers do not bother.

 

Leica is known for their perfectionism. And that is why they ARE working very hard on a new design. To me this seems also very logical, but my opinion doesn't matter at all.

 

As far as I'm concerned, I will just wait and wonder, what the bokeh of the new 35 summilux will be. Something, to looking forward to. In the meanwhile I'm very happy with what I have.

 

With the release of the new edition, the discussion about focusshift will raise again.

I could imagine, that it would get quite difficult to sell the actual version then. On the other hand it could also be a very good chance for those, who use film .

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[okram]

I have the same doubt. Lux or Cron.

Can somebody post some comparison at f2.?

I would use the Cron at f2 most of the time, and I wonder how it compares resolutin-wise with Lux.