tashley Posted October 28, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have asked a couple of people this by PM but I need a larger sample: I bought one of these new recently but on my M9 (a body that has since had to have its RF adjusted because none of my trusted lenses could quite reach infinity on it and lots of my mid to long range shots were slightly off) the 18mm lens focussed straight past infinity. And the result was slightly less clear long distance detail than if I aligned the RF on far objects, rather than merely set the lens to infinity. I have tried two other examples of the lens at my dealer, one from the same batch as mine and one from another batch, on a range of different bodies. I then tried another example at another dealer on yet another body. They all do it. My original lens went off with my M9 body for inspection at Milton Keynes. The body has been returned with adjustments having been made to the now-accurate RF but the lens was going to be sent to Solms for further inspection. I have asked them to hold off doing this while I try to ascertain which of the following is true: 1) They all do it, for some very good reason (thermal expansion room? IR focus?) that I haven't yet realised. In which case I will have it back straight away rather than waiting for it to go to Solms and back 2) Many of them do it but none of them should. In which case I will ask for a full refund and try to track down a 'good' one. I have tried to get a clear answer from Leica themselves. I failed. SO I therefore throw myself on the mercy of the forum! Will anyone who has one of these lenses please put it on their camera, M8 or M9, and focus using their RF on a very distant object (preferably further than 1 mile) and then look at the lens barrel to see if the infinity mark has been reached. If not, raise the camera to your eye again and watch the focus patch as you move the barrel to the infinity mark. Does the RD patch now move 'past' infinity? To quantify the effect of this: at F4, the loss of fine distance detail on my setup by setting the barrel to infinity rather than by using the RF to focus is roughly equivalent to the difference between a well focussed file being developed in LR rather than in C1. Not earth shattering but certainly noticeable and certainly visible in a large print. All responses much appreciated! Tim EDIT: while I was writing the above I got a response by email from Leica saying that this is not a normal effect but has no influence on picture quality. I disagree, naturally, because my own testing shows that there is an impact on picture quality. I will have to mull my options but I would love to identify from all of us how frequent a phenomenon this is with this lens... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Hi tashley, Take a look here Anyone got an 18mm F3.8 Super Elmar?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andreas_thomsen Posted October 28, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 28, 2009 ???? no probs with my lenses at all cheers andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted October 28, 2009 ????no probs with my lenses at all cheers andy Just to clarify Andreas: I am only talking about the 18mm F3.8 My other lenses all behave as expected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 28, 2009 Share #4 Posted October 28, 2009 I don't recall any such focusing errors with my 3.8/18 but if you haven't made up your mind before tomorrow I will give your step-by-step a try tonight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 28, 2009 Share #5 Posted October 28, 2009 Tim, didn't you say that you had no problems if you focused properly, rather than just snapping the lens to infinity? I have noticed the same effect on my 35 Lux ASPH, and therefore always focus properly. Remember that the rangefinder is the same for all lenses, and that there is only one plane of real focus. The rest is CoC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted October 28, 2009 I don't recall any such focusing errors with my 3.8/18 but if you haven't made up your mind before tomorrow I will give your step-by-step a try tonight. Thanks Marty - I am still humming and haa-ing. I would love to know your results... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted October 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Tim, didn't you say that you had no problems if you focused properly, rather than just snapping the lens to infinity? Yes, that's exactly right. I have noticed the same effect on my 35 Lux ASPH, and therefore always focus properly. Remember that the rangefinder is the same for all lenses, and that there is only one plane of real focus. The rest is CoC. Yup, I got that. But I like to zone focus, to guess focus from my estimate of distance, and to feel that if I pay the best part of £2,000 for a new lens that it has been manufactured carefully! Call me old-fashioned! :D:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 28, 2009 Share #8 Posted October 28, 2009 I am still not convinced that there is an actual problem though... If you call one mile infinity, then it focuses right past infinity, but what if you call a star in the night sky infinity? Does it still focus past infinity? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Morley Posted October 28, 2009 Share #9 Posted October 28, 2009 Totally happy with mine at infinity, or indeed any other distance. This has to be one of THE best lenses I have ever owned. Hope you get it sorted . Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted October 28, 2009 I am still not convinced that there is an actual problem though... If you call one mile infinity, then it focuses right past infinity, but what if you call a star in the night sky infinity? Does it still focus past infinity? Yes, way past. I really do mean WAY past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted October 28, 2009 Totally happy with mine at infinity, or indeed any other distance. This has to be one of THE best lenses I have ever owned. Hope you get it sorted . Don Thanks Don I appreciate the sentiment and I agree that when correctly focussed it is great! When you say that you are totally happy with yours at infinity, do you mean that you have tried the little test I proposed above? Best Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted October 28, 2009 Share #12 Posted October 28, 2009 I bought one of these new recently but on my M9 (a body that has since had to have its RF adjusted because none of my trusted lenses could quite reach infinity on it and lots of my mid to long range shots were slightly off) the 18mm lens focussed straight past infinity. You must have done something to upset Oskar Barnack (or his dog Hektor) in a previous life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted October 28, 2009 You must have done something to upset Oskar Barnack (or his dog Hektor) in a previous life. It was a pre-emptive strike... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 28, 2009 Share #14 Posted October 28, 2009 I would have thought anyone who rubs shoulders with an unelected member of the Government one week and the husband of an unelected head of state the next would have no trouble working the Leica machine... Not sure sending it to Milton Keynes for inspection is going to do much good though. About the only conclusion they're likely to reach is, yes, it's a camera. I will check mine tomorrow but I can certainly agree that if a lens focusses past infinity, everything falls apart. My 50/1 Noctilux did exactly that and you have this weird effect where nothing is in focus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 28, 2009 Share #15 Posted October 28, 2009 Tried it out this evening on my M9: The infinity mark was not reached when focused on a distant object (regardless of the distance). The rangefinder display patch does move slightly "beyond" infinity when turning the barrel further. However: All pictures taken even beyond the first point of infinity focus appear nicely in focus! There is a caveat: all were taken in relative darkness; noise may have influenced a proper assessment of focus. But at least initially it does reaffirm my overall good experience with this lens. If this is really how it is then I would suggest there is nothing wrong with the lens, and it could be just the barrel profile "thermal expansion" tolerance that you mentioned. Personally I would never have any adjustment done for that alone. Will definitely try it again another time in daylight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted October 28, 2009 Share #16 Posted October 28, 2009 I just tried with the 3.8/18 and the M8: On a very distant (more than a mile) lightpoint the rangefinder is exact only at infinity. I even found a star: exact on infinity. I can't move the the lens past infinity. On a not so distant object (about 50m) the rangefinder is exact just before infinity. I checked this with the 3.4/135mm - it's the same: rangefinder-sharpness just before infinity at about 50m, exact on very distant objects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share #17 Posted October 29, 2009 Tried it out this evening on my M9: The infinity mark was not reached when focused on a distant object (regardless of the distance). The rangefinder display patch does move slightly "beyond" infinity when turning the barrel further. However: All pictures taken even beyond the first point of infinity focus appear nicely in focus! There is a caveat: all were taken in relative darkness; noise may have influenced a proper assessment of focus. But at least initially it does reaffirm my overall good experience with this lens. If this is really how it is then I would suggest there is nothing wrong with the lens, and it could be just the barrel profile "thermal expansion" tolerance that you mentioned. Personally I would never have any adjustment done for that alone. Will definitely try it again another time in daylight. Thanks Marty! Mine does the same but probably more so. This does, when you open the files in C1 at 100% or print them very large, reveal a noticeable difference at lower F stops to the apparent acuity of distant objects. If you get a chance to try it in daylight with a tripod etc, it would be very interesting! Thanks again Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted October 29, 2009 I would have thought anyone who rubs shoulders with an unelected member of the Government one week and the husband of an unelected head of state the next would have no trouble working the Leica machine... touché! Not sure sending it to Milton Keynes for inspection is going to do much good though. About the only conclusion they're likely to reach is, yes, it's a camera. They have RF rig now and mine seems to be really spot-on post their work on it, though I have yet to try it with every lens/distance/f stop combo. I will check mine tomorrow but I can certainly agree that if a lens focusses past infinity, everything falls apart. My 50/1 Noctilux did exactly that and you have this weird effect where nothing is in focus. This one doesn't fall apart but it does lose its edge - the lack of AA filter, smaller form-factor and RF viewfinder are the principle reasons to purchase it rather than a 5DII and if one of those falls away, the choice becomes less obvious. For me, the 18mm 3.8 with its minor focus issue gives a result that looks like someone put the AA filter back on. Still good, but not worth the premium. And that's before we consider the poor colour drift correction in current FW. Yawn.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share #19 Posted October 29, 2009 I just tried with the 3.8/18 and the M8: On a very distant (more than a mile) lightpoint the rangefinder is exact only at infinity. I even found a star: exact on infinity. I can't move the the lens past infinity. On a not so distant object (about 50m) the rangefinder is exact just before infinity. I checked this with the 3.4/135mm - it's the same: rangefinder-sharpness just before infinity at about 50m, exact on very distant objects. This is the first clearly confirmed report of a copy of this lens that performs as it should! You are one lucky dude! Want to sell it? :D:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 29, 2009 Share #20 Posted October 29, 2009 Tim, I've tried my Super-Elmar on my M9 and it's behaving as expected - you hit the end stop just as the two images on a distant object coincide. Still get red edges though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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