BerndReini Posted October 23, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 23, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I just got back from an outing with my new M9. I used a 16GB Sandisk Ultra Card and only this one file has this strange horizontal artifact in the middle of the picture. Has anyone seen this before? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/101157-what-the-heck-happened-here-image-artifact-in-m9-dng/?do=findComment&comment=1086158'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Hi BerndReini, Take a look here What the heck happened here? Image artifact in M9 DNG.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
larryk34 Posted October 23, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 23, 2009 There are plenty of movies out there that would tell you that you captured the work of the devil. It used to take Kodak slide film to see that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted October 23, 2009 Share #3 Posted October 23, 2009 Probably some glitch whilst writing to the card. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted October 23, 2009 Share #4 Posted October 23, 2009 You got an extra artistic mode, luckily they didn't charge you extra for it. Keep very quiet about it and maybe they won't notice their mistake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted October 23, 2009 I think it was the M9 telling me that it was a crap picture anyway and that I should throw it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted October 23, 2009 Share #6 Posted October 23, 2009 Well, that is strange. It could also be an error that occurred when downloading from card to computer. Try re-downloading, perhaps using an alternate method. For example, if you used a card reader, try a different card reader. If you downloaded directly from the camera, try using a card reader. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted October 23, 2009 Share #7 Posted October 23, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I just got back from an outing with my new M9. I used a 16GB Sandisk Ultra Card and only this one file has this strange horizontal artifact in the middle of the picture. Has anyone seen this before? Bernd, Take a look HERE Exactly the same thing. Same line, same place... And also here. This is not exactly the same thing but both glitches could be related. Cheers PS: I have included both pictures side by side. It's easy to compare them Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/101157-what-the-heck-happened-here-image-artifact-in-m9-dng/?do=findComment&comment=1086307'>More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted October 23, 2009 Share #8 Posted October 23, 2009 Had similar artefacts on the M8 occasionally. I found that the anomaly was a fragment of a DNG file previously stored on the SD card. My approach to minimize the chance of this happening is: 1. Format card in camera each time I use it 2. Write lock the card before putting it in a reader to transfer images 3. Never format or delete from the card in anything other than the camera I'm pretty sure you will find it is permanently in the DNG image on the card, and not a problem caused in the file transfer to the PC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted October 23, 2009 Share #9 Posted October 23, 2009 I found that the anomaly was a fragment of a DNG file previously stored on the SD card. Don't think so. IMHO nothing to do with fragments of old DNG files on the SD card: THAT would be even more upsetting. It's like if you say your computer can't read and write files properly in the HD, or main memory, and when you open an Excel file, it comes mixed with another Excel, Word, Entourage (Outlook), Garage Band or iPhoto file... When you compare both images, you'll see exactly the same artifact and at the same place. I believe this is a firmware or, worse, an electronic (printed circuit, mainboard or sensor) issue. Something like the darn line. I hope I will be wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted October 23, 2009 Share #10 Posted October 23, 2009 My supposition is that it represents a file write error, where whatever was occupying the space on the SD card prior to the camera attempting to write the new DNG is still there, and appears as embedded 'other image' in the file. How or why it happens I don't know, but I try to make sure that nothing but the camera ever writes to the SD card so as to minimize the possibility that the camera gets confused. It's not the same artefact - it has different colours in it. I've tried to see if it maps to any other part of the image it's embedded into, but it's a little too small to be sure. With my M8, it was occasionally possible to match the fragment to an image that I'd previously shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted October 23, 2009 I talked to a friend about this and he has a good idea of why this might have happened. He said that when you inadvertently pull a card out of a Mac without ejecting the card first, the Mac will try to correct the card when you reinsert it. This would be in line with what most of you assumed. I usually just delete pictures on the card instead of reformatting. I'll reformat in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted October 23, 2009 Share #12 Posted October 23, 2009 I talked to a friend about this and he has a good idea of why this might have happened. He said that when you inadvertently pull a card out of a Mac without ejecting the card first, the Mac will try to correct the card when you reinsert it. This would be in line with what most of you assumed. I usually just delete pictures on the card instead of reformatting. I'll reformat in the future. I always write-protect the SD card before putting it into a reader, should prevent the Mac from being able to do anything to the card. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted October 23, 2009 Share #13 Posted October 23, 2009 That is exactly the same experience that I made. It also applies to PC systems. Always release the card before pulling it out of the card reader otherwise it might get corrupted. Since I follow this rule I have never got the a.m. effect again on my M8.2. Regards Steve I talked to a friend about this and he has a good idea of why this might have happened. He said that when you inadvertently pull a card out of a Mac without ejecting the card first, the Mac will try to correct the card when you reinsert it. This would be in line with what most of you assumed. I usually just delete pictures on the card instead of reformatting. I'll reformat in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted October 23, 2009 Share #14 Posted October 23, 2009 I talked to a friend about this and he has a good idea of why this might have happened. He said that when you inadvertently pull a card out of a Mac without ejecting the card first, the Mac will try to correct the card when you reinsert it. This would be in line with what most of you assumed. I usually just delete pictures on the card instead of reformatting. I'll reformat in the future. Nonsense! But if you guys prefer to ignore it could be a problem, it's up to you. Contact Leica and inform them about the problem would be, IMHO, a more productive (and responsible) option for everyone. The camera has just been released and there're surely bugs. We can help Leica just informing them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 24, 2009 Share #15 Posted October 24, 2009 Steve & Bernd, I think Art is correct. When a card is corrupted by improper removal from computer or camera, my experience has been that its file structure is disrupted and it can't be written to (though there may be other manifestations), not that a funky pattern gets written to an image on the card. Should we expect two computers to choose to write a strange-shaped arrow to the center of a single, specific image when a user doesn't eject a card properly? Should we believe that an OS says, "Oh, look! That's a card that was previously improperly removed; I'll try to fix it"? Where the colors come from, I've got no idea--maybe a reverse image of some part of the image? Probably more complicated than that. One arrow seems more pointed than the other, so the shapes aren't identical. But they're very similar. Maybe more info would help. Were both these images made on the same brand, same size card? Were they perhaps both, say, the 43rd image on the card? Did they both carry the same "Unique ID Number" (as it was called on the M8)? Were both cameras in the same operating mode or both cameras' buffers full? Did both cameras come from the same batch (maybe a similar bad component)? I hope Art and I are wrong, but this looks serious. (Or at least very interesting. ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share #16 Posted October 24, 2009 Nonsense! But if you guys prefer to ignore it could be a problem, it's up to you. My friend had the card removal problem with files from a 5D MarkII. I will stay put and make sure to remove the card properly. I am not getting alarmed by one corrupt file after I have clearly done something the computer even warns me not to do. I shoot a lot, so if this happens again, I will report it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted October 24, 2009 Share #17 Posted October 24, 2009 I think this is a card read problem, too, though it can't hurt to let Leica know about it. I've had a very similar problem with my Nikon D3 and high-speed UDMA CF cards. The RAWs were only partially written or partially corrupted. So you'd get stray lines, or, more usually, EOF errors the image would be incomplete. The problems, both times, were due to removable media devices / computer systems (and not the media itself). Once it was a removal problem (Windows had a problem with removable media and lazy writebacks; looking at the images directly on the card caused a scrambled card). The next (two) times it was a faulty high-end UDMA capable card reader. Switched brands of reader and I've never had a problem since. BTW--this was particularly hard to diagnose with the Nikon because the RAW NEF file includes a full-size JPEG. But it was the actual RAW portion that was being corrupted! So you could see the preview of the RAW in Photo Mechanic or Breeze Browser and everything looked perfectly ok. So I'd back up and format the cards... But it wasn't OK. When C1 built its thumbnails, you could see the corruption in dozens of files! I had to use file recovery software (and a different reader) to get a clean copy of the RAW files! Since the M9 (and M8) doesn't have a full-size preview, you're at least seeing the issue right away. Anyway, now I always: 1) Resist the temptation to preview shots from the actual card I copy them to the hard drive just in case there's an issue with the removable drive or the OS 2) Let C1 build thumbnails to check the RAWs are alright before I back up 3) Format the cards after backup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 24, 2009 Share #18 Posted October 24, 2009 Nonsense! But if you guys prefer to ignore it could be a problem, it's up to you. Contact Leica and inform them about the problem would be, IMHO, a more productive (and responsible) option for everyone. The camera has just been released and there're surely bugs. We can help Leica just informing them. Up to a point I agree, but that point hasn't been reached yet. Until it is confirmed the card has been formatted (to delete the images) in the camera each time after a download, and if the problem continues or is gone then nothing is proved. It is likely to be a card error due to not formatting it each time in the camera. The need to format in camera, and not just delete images or format in the PC, is well known on non-Leica digital forums and perhaps its just a game of playing catch up with digital knowledge. Steve Edit: I should also add that a different card should be used to make sure it isn't the original card thats gone bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted October 24, 2009 Share #19 Posted October 24, 2009 My 2c. Formatting the card in the camera won't necessarily help, because the format most likely doesn't actually overwrite the files. It most likely does some kind of fast-format where it just clobbers the file table so that any device thinks there are no files on the card. This means that the file data is still on the card, and it is valid DNG file data. If for any reason the camera fails to write a section of a new DNG, then it seems possible that the leftover DNG data from the previous shot might get included by mistake. Because it's actually DNG data, the file might load up OK, but have corrupted content - rather than failing to load at all. If you really suspect that the issue is caused by a reader or computer writing junk back to the SD card, then the simplest way to prevent it is to write lock the card before you put it into the reader. The hardware is then prevented from writing anything to the card and consequently shouldn't be able to corrupt it in any way. There is no practical reason why you would ever need to have the computer or any other device than your camera writing to the SD card. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 24, 2009 Share #20 Posted October 24, 2009 Anyway, formatting a card on he M9 takes an eternity and two minutes. I always did (do) so on the M8, but I have given it up on the M9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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