adan Posted October 18, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 18, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just for thought and comments: Suppose in 2006, Leica had introduced the camera we call the M9: 24 x 36 sensor and other features and capabilities as advertised. For €5500. Suppose then that on 09/09/09 (or 08/08/08 for photokina 2008) Leica had introduced the M8/8.2 as we know it: APS-H cropped sensor, requiring external IR filters, with occasional green bands if light hits the edge of the frame, etc. etc. For, say, €3800. Would you trade in your M9 for an M8? Would you have held off for 2-3 years awaiting the M8? Would you get an M8 as a second body? Would you consider the M8 a logical extention to the digital M line? (Note: the numbering order needn't change. Leica introduced the M2 years after creating the M3, as a lower-priced alternative). Discuss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 Hi adan, Take a look here Suppose the M9 had come first.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wattsy Posted October 18, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 18, 2009 I'm not quite sure I see the point of your question unless it's just meant to irritate those who are stating why they think the M8 they have (and are happy with) is better than the M9. There will always be a market for a cheaper 'alternative' for those that cannot afford the 'top of the range'. Clearly, nobody is going to "trade an M9 for an M8.2" (unless they need to raise a few quid or they want to do IR photography) but that doesn't mean that a cheaper to buy cropped alternative isn't an attractive proposition in its own right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Posted October 18, 2009 Share #3 Posted October 18, 2009 There would be wailing and gnashing of teeth after waiting 3 yrs. and finding the replacement camera is a step back in sensor development. Could you image the uproar if Nikon's D3 replacement were a cropped body and worse high ISO capabilities. That might be a death blow to its credibility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckw Posted October 18, 2009 Share #4 Posted October 18, 2009 The way you phrase it I am not sure I get the point of your question either. First, to expect to sell a cropped sensor camera based on a full frame one some significant difference would need to exist, such as a continuous shot rate of 6 shots per second or the like. Second, assuming that the sensor IR cover glass works on the M9 (and it appears to) why would a cropped sensor camera then be offered that required filters on the lens? In short, I think that Leica could create a set of features that would make a cropped sensor camera an attractive alternative, but not under the limitations that you describe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 18, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted October 18, 2009 I'm not quite sure I see the point of your question.... Socratic method - although it is true that Socrates irritated so many people that they eventually poisoned him Chuck - a fair hypothetical point. But the real world we live in offers the M8 (as it is) and the M9 (as it is). It occurs to me to wonder what Leica would call a downgraded digital M. Those not yet persuaded by the M9 are already hoping for an improved M10. I guess if Leica introduced an M10 (supposedly perfected FF) and M11 (discount cropped model) simultaneously, they could get ahead of the game. Spinal Tap would probably prefer the numbers reversed, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted October 18, 2009 Share #6 Posted October 18, 2009 We give you folks separate forums for both the M8 and the M9 and still you feel obliged to post stuff like this in the general Digital forum? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 18, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted October 18, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Concerns both M8 and M9 - where would YOU post it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 18, 2009 Share #8 Posted October 18, 2009 Silly question. If you had an above averaged size penis - but still within the bounds of 'normality', would you want to swap it for a smaller one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 19, 2009 Share #9 Posted October 19, 2009 Silly question. If you had an above averaged size penis - but still within the bounds of 'normality', would you want to swap it for a smaller one? No, but a spare or 'backup' would be handy, in emergencies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
antistatic Posted October 19, 2009 Share #10 Posted October 19, 2009 No, but a spare or 'backup' would be handy, in emergencies. Only when wearing a filter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted October 19, 2009 Share #11 Posted October 19, 2009 Silly question. If you had an above averaged size penis - but still within the bounds of 'normality', would you want to swap it for a smaller one? This depends on the lens mount :-) and fit. LOL This discussion is digressing. I also miss the point of the question. I think the M9 is a great tool and I'm happy for those who can enjoy its FF function. I'm convinced, however, that the M8 overall performs better when it comes to IQ, no magenta cast on white skin for example, and the B&W files still maintain an edge over the M9 (and even my new Canon 5D II) which is what put the M8 in a genre of its own in the first place. I have no complaints about using IR/UV filters for the benefit of the M8 image stamp. I said this when the M8 first came out (I was one of the lucky one's to pick-up an M8 while people were still on prepaid waiting lists) the M8 is somewhere in-between film and digital when it comes to skin tones and texture, it is the perfect combination of both. If the M10 can produce that same image stamp, I'll probably go for one. IMHO, I believe that making it so you don't have to use IR/UV filters on the M9 unfortunately took something away from the IQ of this latest incarnation of an M camera that comes with a cheap paint finish. Others on this forum have shared similar thoughts. For all the discussion on the worth of the M8 on the used market, I suspect it will retain its value precisely because many will favor the IQ of the M8 over the more expensive M9. Scarcity will also keep its value up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share #12 Posted October 19, 2009 Wilfredo, when it comes to understanding the M9, everyone might want to follow the advice in your signature quote. Let's be a little less hurried. At this stage in its life the M8 was still full of green blobs, streaks, and pink grays - and half of us were wondering what UV/IR filters were. Respectfully, I think your opinion regarding M9 vs M8 IQ will change over time. You might care to look at http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/102813-m9-skin-tones.html The M9 and the M8 use the same "film," just in different sizes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted October 19, 2009 Share #13 Posted October 19, 2009 Concerns both M8 and M9 - where would YOU post it? Where the sun don't shine? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share #14 Posted October 19, 2009 Ah - A discussion forum where we, hmm, don't discuss things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted October 19, 2009 Share #15 Posted October 19, 2009 Wilfredo, when it comes to understanding the M9, everyone might want to follow the advice in your signature quote. Let's be a little less hurried. At this stage in its life the M8 was still full of green blobs, streaks, and pink grays - and half of us were wondering what UV/IR filters were. Respectfully, I think your opinion regarding M9 vs M8 IQ will change over time. You might care to look at http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/102813-m9-skin-tones.html The M9 and the M8 use the same "film," just in different sizes. "Little understanding is cramped and busy." That's one of the reasons why I didn't jump on the band wagon rushing toward the purchase of an M9. I can see that this camera works for your needs, but I'm not sold on it. Yes, that may change as new firmware is introduced but I still think I will probably remain "unhurried" toward the purchase of a new M9 and will wait to see what the M10 looks like. I've seen some excellent shots with the M9 but overall, I remain convinced that the M8 has a little bit more IQ to offer, especially in the area of B&W photography. The M8 is not a step down unless you really desire FF and a larger files size as in your case, but is that a negative reflection on the camera? I don't really think so. Anyway, regardless, I trust you will continue to enjoy the M9. You are happy with it and I'm fine with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K I Posted October 22, 2009 Share #16 Posted October 22, 2009 Valid question Adan! I get it. I am planning on getting the M9 as a back up to my 8.2 simply for the crop factor, like the extra reach on the 8... Would be the same now, M9 as back up to M8 regardless of release date. Nuances don't bother me that much, IR filters and so on, i just conform to or work around them. Did the same with Nikon gear, eventually got rid of 2 D700 which were back ups to my D200's, kept 2 D200's for the same reason, crop factor and the CCD sensor. D200 + old Nikkor lenses in my opinion are sweet combination's especially the 80-200mm 2.8 AFS. Not sure if there will ever be a perfect camera... KI KI Photography Blog Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 22, 2009 Share #17 Posted October 22, 2009 ...The M9 and the M8 use the same "film," just in different sizes. Or they use the same raw converter. With good lenses, my Nikon, Canon and Epson pics look very close through C1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.