russell Posted October 17, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 17, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Why am I asking this? Because it seems on the M9 we can manually select this lens from the menu. So does something show up in the file(EXIF?) where we can back-out what the 6-bit coding should have been? You see what I'm getting at? If we can find out what the 6-bit equivalent for the "missing" lenses like the pre-asph 35mm Summilux are then we can go and hand code them ourselves and save the bother with the menu(and forgetting to turn it on and off when switching lenses). Any ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 Hi russell, Take a look here How to code the pre-asph 35mm Summilux?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
carstenw Posted October 17, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 17, 2009 I don't have an M9 yet, so I cannot test anything personally, but IIRC there aren't that many missing codes in the table (see my sig), so if someone diligent felt up to it, trying them one by one and then looking in the EXIF to see which lens got recognized could find this information. Note that the lever position is important for many lenses. This does presume that a manually coded lens does show up properly in the EXIF. Can someone confirm this with a lens in the table? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell Posted October 17, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted October 17, 2009 How many lenses does Leica include on the manual lens selection menu that are not on Carsten's list? Do those plus the ones already on the list add up to more than 64? Just thinking about the limits of 6 bits. Or is it 6 bits times 3 for the frameline selector switch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 17, 2009 Share #4 Posted October 17, 2009 No lenses are known to reuse codes yet... That doesn't mean it won't happen though. Good question though: how many lenses are on the M9's manual selection list? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mby Posted October 17, 2009 Share #5 Posted October 17, 2009 (...) how many lenses are on the M9's manual selection list? 36 positions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup de foudre Posted October 17, 2009 Share #6 Posted October 17, 2009 my understanding (though i may be mistaken) was that there was something physically on the lens that would not allow it to be manually coded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 17, 2009 Share #7 Posted October 17, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't understand what you mean. Could you explain? There is a menu for manual coding, and the camera doesn't even look at the lens at that point. 36 << 64. Hm. Are all the codable lenses on that list too? I know that some are, like the 35 Lux ASPH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 17, 2009 Share #8 Posted October 17, 2009 my understanding (though i may be mistaken) was that there was something physically on the lens that would not allow it to be manually coded. In my item (very first series : 1.765.750) there is a screw on the mount, along the position of the bit stripe, and this is annoying for hand coding, even if i did it with success on my Elmarit 28 which has the same issue; I preferred not to "touch" the Lux: too fine to be enameled... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 17, 2009 Share #9 Posted October 17, 2009 From someone who has both an M9 and the 35 pre-ASPH Summilux: 1. I don't bother to use the manual lens selection option to ID the lens. There is no color drift to correct, and the difference in monochromatic vignetting as used "straight", or with in-camera corrections, is pretty modest, as it actually appears on a computer screen, at f/1.4-3.5. (On the LCD, it looks greater due to the extra contrast Leica has added to the M9 LCD to improve daylight viewing). It is easy to tweak dark corners in most RAW developers if needed, but frankly I usually find myself ADDING vignetting back in to get that "edge-burned photojournalism" look, just as with my 21 pre-ASPH or 75mm. By the time I stop down to f/4, vignetting is pretty much gone anyway, with or without corrections. Therefore, the only real advantage to ID'ing the lens that I see is to record the focal length in EXIF. 2. To the original question, I would not assume that uncodable lenses that are now available in the manual lens detection menu have also been assigned a "secret number" that corresponds to, or fits into, the 6-bit number range used for codable lenses. There may be two separate databases - one for numbered codable lenses, and a newer "name-based" one for the lenses Leica now provides in the list. I.E. - there may be NO 6-bit pattern that the M9 will recognize as a "35 Summilux f/1.4 11869/11870/11860". Just as a person is not required to have a phone number in order to have a name and a postal address. But maybe there is. I'll be interested to see what we find out. 3. As to physical limitations on coding the 35 Lux pre-ASPH: My 1979 version does not have any screw heads or marks that would preclude adding black marks to ID the lens - IF there is a set of markings the M9 will recognize (see 2). The reason Leica does not provide for retro-coding this lens is precisely that the mount is different from most post-1980 M lenses. It cannot be easily removed by simply taking out 5-6 external screws on the flange surface (thus no screw heads) - it requires a more substantial disassembly, and a more complex chunk of metal as a replacement flange, so they just orphaned it as too expensive to code under the original M8 regime. So "Sharpie engineering" is likely easy - IF there is any 6-bit code that will work (or if one is willing to code it as a 35 ASPH and hope the corrections are close to accurate). Removing the flange for machining is more problematic, and machining it in situ next to that big exposed rear element is not for the faint of heart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 18, 2009 Share #10 Posted October 18, 2009 Correction and Clarification: I've found this one image out of several hundred so far that reveals cyan edge drift with uncoded 35 f/1.4 pre-ASPH (@ about f/4) but little vignetting. I'm going to experiment with Sharpie-coding on the otherwise pristine flange of my lens using other 35mm lens codes to see if any are a good match. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/100515-how-to-code-the-pre-asph-35mm-summilux/?do=findComment&comment=1079167'>More sharing options...
zonevt Posted October 18, 2009 Share #11 Posted October 18, 2009 When I had my M8 cameras I owned a 35mm Summilux pre-asherical that was a great performing lens on my M6 bodies. I sent it in to Leica with my other lenses for 6 bit coding and they sent it back saying it could not be coded. I gave up using it on the M8 as it did not work well with this camera, soft wide open and cyan corners etc.. I do not have the M9 yet but will try it again with this full frame camera when I get it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 18, 2009 Share #12 Posted October 18, 2009 In my item (very first series : 1.765.750) there is a screw on the mount, along the position of the bit stripe, and this is annoying for hand coding, even if i did it with success on my Elmarit 28 which has the same issue; I preferred not to "touch" the Lux: too fine to be enameled... Sorry... imprecise statement... I controlled and indeed my item hasn't a single screw ... I was confused... the mount is fitted with tiny radial screws on the collar: surely very delicate to dismount, but very easy to be sharpie-painted (I won't do it, anyway: is barely usable at 1,4, and I have other old 35s if I want old style look). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickp13 Posted October 18, 2009 Share #13 Posted October 18, 2009 luigi is correct - the flange on the pre-asph summilux 35mm is quite special. re coding, i asked the factory, then a local leica repairman about removing the flange - sorry - substantial disassembly as mentioned by adan. i sent the lens away (NY) and had the flange milled there. the coding i ended up using was for the asph summilux (011101), which seemed to work well on the m8 without changing the "look". i wish you all good results with this lens on the m9, and will follow this thread to see further examples. greetings from hamburg rick Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/100515-how-to-code-the-pre-asph-35mm-summilux/?do=findComment&comment=1080261'>More sharing options...
adan Posted October 19, 2009 Share #14 Posted October 19, 2009 OK, here are some experiments. I chose to try Sharpie-coding the 35 'lux pre-ASPH as a 35 'cron pre-ASPH because they have very similar optical layouts (see diagram). The examples are top to bottom, no correction (lens detection OFF), manual correction from the list as a 35 f/1.4, and 6-bit coded correction as a 35 f/2. The plainer wall is at f/1.4 to check vignetting correction. The wall with signs showing was at f/5.6 - more to check color drift correction. IMHO the f/2 pre-ASPH coding is very close to the manual setting for f/1.4 pre-ASPH, with perhaps a touch more color correction (added red). At any rate, preferable to no correction at all if one wants to avoid using the menu list. I tried 6-bit coding the 35 f/1.4 as a "2" - oooo1o - an unused number in the region assigned to Mandler lens designs (1-9). The M9 would not recognize it, but Sharpie coding is tricky so I may just have been off in my positioning. So a "magic number" for the 35 f/1.4 pre-ASPH specifically is still a mystery. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/100515-how-to-code-the-pre-asph-35mm-summilux/?do=findComment&comment=1080357'>More sharing options...
russell Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share #15 Posted October 19, 2009 Thanks for the photos Andy. I think it makes sense to try and get the camera to do some correction rather than leave it undetected. Also I'm wondering if someone has an overview of the two sets of lenses for which Leica allows corrections. The first set being the list that the M8 recognizes. The second set being the list that the M9 automatically recognizes + the manual menu selected lenses. How many lenses are extra in the manual list? And is the total number of lenses still less than 64? How many lenses other than the 35mm pre-asph Lux are on the manual list but not on the M8 list? I guess worst case is we(the royal we I'm afraid since I don't have a sharpie coding kit yet) could run all 64 combinations and see what comes up in the EXIF file? Or could somebody pull out the EXIF data from a manually set M9 file with a 35mm pre-asph Lux? Waaa! Questions, questions.... My plan would be to sent it to Malcolm Taylor and have him mill the recesses for the 6-bits for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted October 19, 2009 Share #16 Posted October 19, 2009 As far as I can see from the list given in the M9-test on Reidreviews the new lenses which came out after 6-bit coding was introduced are not in the manual list, for all of them are coded; i.e. all the Summarits, the 3.8/18, 1,4/21+24; 3.8/24 and the 0.95/50. The WATE is in the list. So you have 32 different lenses, with the three options each for the WATE and the MATE, the Macro-Adpapter for the 4/90 plus the 9 new lenses. The preaspherical 1.4/35 (No. 11869, 11870 and 11860) is in the manual list. As there is still some hope that the option for manual lens selection will be applied to the M8 by firmware, i shouldn't bother about hand-coding any Leica lenses at the moment. (To occupy Leica workers with lens coding will only result in longer waiting for the M9-deliveries. ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 19, 2009 Share #17 Posted October 19, 2009 The catalog numbers make my head spin, but so far as I can tell, lenses on the M9's built-in list for which Leica did not also support 6-bit coding are: 35 f/1.4 pre-ASPH 50 f/1.2 Noctilux 135 f/4 Tele-Elmar 135 f/3.4 APO-Telyt The 15 Hologon, 21 Super-Angulons, and first two versions of the 28 f/2.8 (pre 1980) are not supported at all. The recent super-aperture 21, 24, and 50 Nocti are not on the list (but were never made in uncoded versions) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted October 20, 2009 So it looks like there are at least these 4 lenses that might have missing mystery codes. Also you have to wonder how Leica will handle it once they go over the 64 unique codes they have available now. Frame line selector if there is a sensor attached to it could help to triple the number. Is there space on the mount for a 7th and 8th bit? At any rate, I've complained about Leica in the past on this forum, but now at least I want to give them credit for adding this manual lens selection option. It's a big step in the right direction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share #19 Posted December 30, 2009 I ran the idea past Malcolm Taylor and he's going to give a thought as to how to set up a rig so he can run through all combinations of possible 6 bit codes. Let's hope he can pull it off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted December 30, 2009 Share #20 Posted December 30, 2009 Frame line selector if there is a sensor attached to it could help to triple the number. Since if you have the correct code with the wrong framelines the lens isn't recognised it's probably already been thought of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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