biglouis Posted May 31, 2009 Share #1 Posted May 31, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just spent a very boring hour trying to get the grime of my sensor. In the end after much Artic Butterflying and visible dust swabbing I managed to get most (not all) of it off. Okay, my technique may be the problem but seriously, if its good enough for a £5K Nikon can we please have a sensor dust removal system on the M9? LouisB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 31, 2009 Posted May 31, 2009 Hi biglouis, Take a look here Please Leica: give us a dust removal system on the M9. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest Olof Posted May 31, 2009 Share #2 Posted May 31, 2009 Just spent a very boring hour trying to get the grime of my sensor. In the end after much Artic Butterflying and visible dust swabbing I managed to get most (not all) of it off. Okay, my technique may be the problem but seriously, if its good enough for a £5K Nikon can we please have a sensor dust removal system on the M9? LouisB and where should this system take place in the body ? Pleas dont try all the time to make a SLR System from the M System. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted May 31, 2009 Share #3 Posted May 31, 2009 Even with a good dust removal system on my Pentax K20D I still suffer occasionally from foreign matter showing on my skies at 100%. I seem to have read elsewhere that dust removal systems are not 100% reliable or successful. They just help to shake off dust particles vulnerable to 'shake' systems! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljclark Posted May 31, 2009 Share #4 Posted May 31, 2009 Just spent a very boring hour trying to get the grime of my sensor. In the end after much Artic Butterflying and visible dust swabbing I managed to get most (not all) of it off. Okay, my technique may be the problem but seriously, if its good enough for a £5K Nikon can we please have a sensor dust removal system on the M9? LouisB Not to mention the $1600 Nikon, or even the $500 Olympus. There may be some internal some space considerations, and I know from personal experience that both will still collect dust. However, last week I got the Visible Dust loupe and took a look at my 2 D300s and the M8. The M8 is newer and has shot far fewer frames, but there was plenty of dust. I couldn't see anything on the D300s. And this isn't turning an M-body into a DSLR any more than mounting an LCD on the back of the M8 was an attempt to turn it into a DSLR. Some things are just improvements, and are in the normal flow of the market. I expect the next M-body to have a better, higher resolution LCD...Just because the technology is there and it is logical to make an improvement. If Leica can fit it (and things like the sticky strip) into the body, and it doesn't have some negative consequence, I wouldn't be surprised to see an internal dust-buster in the M9. It certainly isn't a sales killer not to have it, but anything that reduces the "visits" to the sensor by the users can't be all bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted May 31, 2009 Share #5 Posted May 31, 2009 ... In the end after much Artic Butterflying and visible dust swabbing I managed to get most (not all) of it off. ... LouisB Louis, Which solution are you using on the swab? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljclark Posted May 31, 2009 Share #6 Posted May 31, 2009 Even with a good dust removal system on my Pentax K20D I still suffer occasionally from foreign matter showing on my skies at 100%. I seem to have read elsewhere that dust removal systems are not 100% reliable or successful. They just help to shake off dust particles vulnerable to 'shake' systems! Nothing is 100%, but I guess the question is whether or not you have decided to disable the dust-buster because it is not 100% effective against all physical contaminants. From some online comparisons I saw awhile back, Olympus still seems to be the most successful with their system. Some of the in-camera systems may almost be jokes. I'll take less than 100% if it reasonably extends the amount of time between my having to take direct measures (brush or swab) to clean the sensor. If it turns out the "system" is just something that wiggles the sensor, then... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted May 31, 2009 Share #7 Posted May 31, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have had the dust-buster on my Olympus E-1 and now E-3, and it really works. The technology is old enough that the other manufacturers have either licensed it or worked around Olympus patents by now. Some extra thickness is required, but perhaps not as much as in-body stabilization requires. Speaking of which... scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted May 31, 2009 Share #8 Posted May 31, 2009 Although I do get dust on the sensor if I keep a eye on it and clean it as soon as I see any and as soon as I get the chance I don't fined it to bad. In fact I clean the sensor on both my M8's just before I went to St. Louis for a family wedding on April 18. I put the black M8 away on my return and have only used the chrome. I just checked the sensor and there is no dust on it. I have taken shots mainly outside since then and have carried it almost everywhere and changed lenses numerous times. I don't subscribe to the butterfly and only use either Pec-Pads or sensor swabs with Eclipse E2 solution. Oh no thanks to the sensor cleaning system in the camera. I'm looking forward to a thinner/smaller/lighter M9//10/11. If Leica adds anything to the sensor area it should be a IR cut filter and a focus conformation system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglouis Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted May 31, 2009 Thanks for the responses, I was just venting my frustration. I'm assuming that the technology for dust removal is pretty much integral to the sensors in cameras that have it. I can't believe it would add any additional dimensions to the M8, let alone the M9. I love my M8 and wouldn't change to another system just because it has a sensor cleaning system but I would consider changing to an M9 that had one. And at the same time, how about in camera image stabilisation! LouisB PS. Bill, I use the solution that comes with the visible dust swabs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted May 31, 2009 Share #10 Posted May 31, 2009 Well sure it adds dimension. It is a system to either move the sensor or vibrate it in some way. All the systems to do that take up space. Then where does the dust go? It's still in the sensor cavity, mirror box, lens mount area. It's not like it dematerializes it. We'll have to wait some more time for that. Thanks for the responses, I was just venting my frustration. I'm assuming that the technology for dust removal is pretty much integral to the sensors in cameras that have it. I can't believe it would add any additional dimensions to the M8, let alone the M9. I love my M8 and wouldn't change to another system just because it has a sensor cleaning system but I would consider changing to an M9 that had one. And at the same time, how about in camera image stabilisation! LouisB PS. Bill, I use the solution that comes with the visible dust swabs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted May 31, 2009 Share #11 Posted May 31, 2009 PS. Bill, I use the solution that comes with the visible dust swabs. Louis, The reason I asked is that I ordered some sort of mega-kit some years ago from Visible Dust that came with three different solutions, to be used dependent on what sort of grime you were dealing with. You are probably using Sensor Clean which should be used only on dirt. I wrote on another thread that I now use surgical loupes left over from my past profession and noticed that I created a bit of a smear with the arctic butterfly. I then switched over to the "Smear Clear" solution with a swab and it was removed brilliantly with one pass. The third solution, "V-dust" is evidently to be used when you are not sure whether the offending particle is dust or lubricant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted May 31, 2009 Share #12 Posted May 31, 2009 Those "dust shakers" only shake off loose dust particles. You're still going to eventually have to wet clean it. Get used to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljclark Posted May 31, 2009 Share #13 Posted May 31, 2009 Then where does the dust go? It's still in the sensor cavity, mirror box, lens mount area. It's not like it dematerializes it. We'll have to wait some more time for that. In the Olympus system, there is a sticky strip below the sensor to trap the dislodged particles. As I understand it, the strip has a static charge which draws the dust particles to its surface. Whether the surface of the sensor is also charged in some way -- I have no idea. I suspect that Oly isn't the only company to employ the sticky strip. It's not perfect, but Olys seem to be less plagued by dust than others. I suspect there will be more room inside the next M-body to play with, just from space efficiencies due to smaller circuits. Likewise, battery consumption may drop. If so, the designers will be dealing with space and power budgets. It will be interesting to see what makes the cut, and what doesn't Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWW Posted June 1, 2009 Share #14 Posted June 1, 2009 How new is your M8? I used to have to clean it very often when my M8 was new but hardly need to touch it now (over 2 yrs old). I also use the butterfly if needed for dust and used the wet wipes only once. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted June 1, 2009 Share #15 Posted June 1, 2009 There's a body of opinion here that the M8 is already too corpulent and if there's one priority for a new camera, it's to concentrate more than ever on the essentials. The only reasons to make the camera bigger in my view would be to incorporate a zooming finder with dioptre correction and focus assist - to do away with add-on finders, magnifiers and diopters - and if a FF camera needed a higher capacity battery pack. I certainly wouldn't want to see the camera getting bigger to include features like image stabilisation, dust removal and an articulating screen. I don't have a problem with dust; cleanliness begins with vacuuming out your camera bag and I don't surround myself with the paraphernalia Visible Dust would like us to buy - all those myriad solutions and bottles. A blower, sensor swabs, Pec-Pads and Eclipse is, for me, dust control nirvana. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 1, 2009 Share #16 Posted June 1, 2009 The amount of dust, after the first few months can only be called minimal. And it is so easy to remove that I think a dust removal system is utterly superfluous. Those systems don't do away with wet cleaning either. The dust they shake off is just as easily removed by a quick blow with the Rocket Blower or by the Arctic Butterfly, and dust that sticks to the sensor and needs wet cleaning will still stick to the sensor regardless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_w Posted June 1, 2009 Share #17 Posted June 1, 2009 The only reasons to make the camera bigger in my view would be to incorporate a zooming finder with dioptre correction and focus assist - to do away with add-on finders, magnifiers and diopters. I am going off topic I know, but I second Mark's suggestion with a resounding cheer! Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_w Posted June 1, 2009 Share #18 Posted June 1, 2009 The amount of dust, after the first few months can only be called minimal. And it is so easy to remove that I think a dust removal system is utterly superfluous. Those systems don't do away with wet cleaning either. The dust they shake off is just as easily removed by a quick blow with the Rocket Blower or by the Arctic Butterfly, and dust that sticks to the sensor and needs wet cleaning will still stick to the sensor regardless. And I completely agree with Jaap on the cleaning question. After initial cleaning (which, BTW, was mostly oil spots or similar, and hence not susceptible to a dust shaker system) there has been very little need for cleaning and very little dust -- less, in fact than with my Canon DSLR. I don't know whether it is a less electrostatic surface or for some other reason, but very little dust gets on the M8 sensor even with frequent lens changing. I suspect the OP will have a much better experience once he is past the initial cleaning stage. I was originally enthusiastic but I now think 'dust removal systems' are just another play in the feature-marketing war. As is image stabilisation -- useful with long lenses but not with the M8 in most circumstances. What we need is 'subject stabilisation'. Maybe they are working on it? Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted June 1, 2009 Share #19 Posted June 1, 2009 ........ if its good enough for a £5K Nikon can we please have a sensor dust removal system on the M9?.......LouisB Unfortunately not the best example Louis, the D3 and D3x don't have dust removal systems (the big Canons do though). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted June 1, 2009 Share #20 Posted June 1, 2009 I personally regard dust removal systems as an unnecessary gimmick. I had a wet cleaning once within 9 month and blow with air from time to time only. For wet cleaning eclipse E2 worked very well. Don't touch the lens mount with any cleaning device. Also cameras with dust removal systems require wet cleaning sooner or later and they are for sure not capable of shaking off grease that some might incautiously smeared from their lens mount to the sensor. So Leica, please make any successor rather smaller than to burden it with these kind of useless stuff. My point of view Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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