Digilux 2 and low-light

[AlbertoDeRoma]

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Note: I am posting this here (instead of the photo forum) because the actual photo is not that great and the real subject of the post is the D2 low-light capabilities.

 

Last night, after dinner at our favorite pizzeria with the family, I decided to stay around town and take some shots with the D2. While camera's max ISO is 400 – and it's already noisy at 200, in my experience a tripod and a couple of seconds at 100 can give you some pretty good shots.

 

Having said that, I came home pretty dejected (and wanting an M9 with more usable ISOs more than ever) because carrying a tripod around was a real pain and I stood out like a sore thumb. Fortunately, despite the hassle of a tripod and 1sec+ exposures, some of the photos came out pretty darn nice.

 

The following example was taken outside the town's library. It was very dark; with the naked eye, all I could see was the glow of a green LED and a crouched shape outside the lighted library window. Quiet as a mouse - not to draw attention to myself - I set the Digilux 2 on the tripod and zoomed it to 90mm. ISO was set at 100, f/2.4, 2.0 seconds.

 

When I got home and downloaded the photo, I saw that that the crouching figure was someone using the library's free WiFi on their laptop. He never noticed me, probably because he also had headphones on and was pretty engrossed by what he was reading on the laptop.

 

While an M9 with ISO 800 or 1600 would have been great and would have saved me the hassle of a tripod, I think that the D2 low-light performance can be impressive if you give it a second - or 2.

 

Alberto

 

P.S. The much less compressed (3.5MB) original is significantly better than what I uploaded. The green of the foliage and shrubs really stands out, as does the texture of the rocks. But even this 480KB image should convey the D2 low-light performance.

 

[AlbertoDeRoma]

BTW, here's a simulation (by reducing the exposure and brightness of what I could see through the naked eye - and through the D2 viewfinder. The green LED is what caught my attention, I would have never noticed otherwise.

 

Alberto

 

[farnz]

Alberto,

 

There are a number of other options besides toting a full-length tripod everywhere:

1. A Leica (miniature) tripod and ball head stabilised against the chest

2. A bean bag or Leica tripod sitting on a convenient street cabinet, seat or other object

3. A Gorillapod wrapped around a convenient pole or used like those in 2.

4. The 'bushman's' tripod, which is a stout piece of string with a loop at one end and attached to a tripod screw at the other. The tripod screw screws into the D2's tripod bush and your foot goes through the loop so that you can tension the string and stabilise the D2. You're unlikely to get perfectly sharp pictures at 2 seconds with this option but it'll earn you a few stops and with practice ... who knows? I believe this was developed from a similar device used by snipers.

 

Pete.

[lemalk]

Agreed that the D2 gives good results with a tripod.

 

I had a frustrating night last night with my LC1. My girlfriend and I were at Pink's hot dogs in Los Angeles with an LC1 and an M8.

 

The M8 had a 35mm 1.7 on it and was shooting at 320 ISO at 1/30 of a second.

The LC1 was shooting at 400 ISO at 2.0 and 1/15...and results were frustratingly bad. Manual focusing was near-impossible and blur from movement was extremely noticeable. I hadn't felt as frustrated with that machine in a long time.

 

I guess as a street shooter, the LC1 is a mostly daytime machine, unfortunately.

[h00ligan]

4. The 'bushman's' tripod, which is a stout piece of string with a loop at one end and attached to a tripod screw at the other.

 

Pete.

 

I plan on doing this as it does seem to help and is super inexpensive and easy to store. Here's a link to a 'how to' on it, should anyone want to give it a shot.

 

String Tripod

 

or, here's a cheaper and easier version that is a drop and step. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-Af3aJ2kviJ4/1_image_stabilizer_for_any_camera_lose_the_tripod/

[poklade]

If you have a frustrating night - just do it in the dusk or at dawn.

LC1 at I00 ISO, f2.

 

[jrethorst]

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Has anyone tried software like Noise Ninja with D2 photos at high ISO? I see at the program's web site that they have 'noise profiles' for the D2 and LC1.

[John Thawley]

Has anyone tried software like Noise Ninja with D2 photos at high ISO? I see at the program's web site that they have 'noise profiles' for the D2 and LC1.

 

It's a bit too aggressive for 5MP.

 

@Alberto: 800 ISO and even 1600 ISO would not have helped in this situation. You'd still be hanging around at about 1/2 .sec

 

JT

[AlbertoDeRoma]

It's a bit too aggressive for 5MP.

 

@Alberto: 800 ISO and even 1600 ISO would not have helped in this situation. You'd still be hanging around at about 1/2 .sec

 

JT

 

Good point.

 

Thanks,

 

Alberto

[jrethorst]

It's a bit too aggressive for 5MP.

 

Could you elaborate? I'd really like to use ISO 400 with the D2, but it's just about unusable because of the noise.

[John Thawley]

Could you elaborate? I'd really like to use ISO 400 with the D2, but it's just about unusable because of the noise.

 

Noise reduction is a balancing act of compromises.

 

The "noise" isn't grain. It's noise. There is the noise you can see and the noise you can't see. Think of it like a black shirt or a white shirt. The black shirt may not appear as dirty as the white shirt, but if they've both been worn for the same day in the same circumstances, the black shirt is just as dirty.

 

So... all of your photo is noisy. So as you try to eliminate the noise, you start eliminating detail. How do we retrieve detail? We sharpen. Sharpening is simply a matter of the software locating the edges and throwing a little bit of contrast under the edge giving the appearance of sharper. That's why when you over sharpen you end up with "crunchy" looking edges and a bit of halo around the edge.

 

So... since the Digilux 2 file is only 5MP spread out over the sensor (they're fairly good size pixels compaerd to newer cameras) the file just can't take a lot of manipulation. There's not enough "headroom"....

 

So by time you reduce the noise to a near palatable level, you've smeared the detail and things (zoomed in) look like a tiny oil painting effect. Sharpening makes that look like you used a putty knife instead of a brush.

 

That said, black and white at ISO 400 is quite nice. Just remember to expose to the right. Don't under expose or your going to introduce more noise trying to bring it up. Consider over exposing a bit. Even at ISO 100, an under exposed image as very little room for bring it back up before seeing noise.

 

Unlike film, sensors do not treat all light equally. They're not linear. Where film exposes light exactly the same corner to corner (lens quality considered) a sensor will treat highlights and shadows selectively. So you always need to pay attention to shadows when shooting digital... underexposed shadows will give you problems if you try to pull them back in post processing.

 

Of course, each camera / sensor has its own personality. So... the best advice, as always, get it right in the camera.

 

JT

[dugby]

This is the pocket size Hakuba tripod that I carry for my D2 and D3, which I bought off ebay for $20

 

It's 20cm when closed up. Fully extended it's 30cm tall, and very stable

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[daveleo]

Alberto,

 

very interesting low light photo and discussion.

 

the EXIF data says you were on manual white balance ?

how does that work in the dark?

or did you just leave the D2 as it was previously set ?

[AlbertoDeRoma]

Alberto,

 

very interesting low light photo and discussion.

 

the EXIF data says you were on manual white balance ?

how does that work in the dark?

or did you just leave the D2 as it was previously set ?

 

Hi Daveleo,

 

Ah, white balance, the thing I forget to check/reset at least 50% of the time . But I doubt that I had it set to manual in that case - it was probably set on AWB. I checked my Extended EXIF and I can't see any mention of what WB I used - where should I look (I am using Aperture)? Perhaps the EXIF info you have defaults to manual.

 

Thanks,

 

Alberto

[carlosecpf]

Hi Alberto,

 

I really like your shot and I know how do you feel by setting up a tripod to get a regular shot at night. When I got my D2 I didn't use anything above ISO 100, but I started to appreciate more and more the grain-like noise produced by my D2. Recently, I've been shooting a lot at ISO 200 and 400 and have achieve some nice results. Of course, I am trying to minimize some harsh noise by using Nik Dfine 2. Here are some samples:

 

the first one was taken with ISO400 and the second one with ISO200. Both got post-processed in Nik Dfine 2.

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[carlosecpf]

Noise reduction is a balancing act of compromises.

 

JT

 

Super helpful explanation! Thanks john!

[AlbertoDeRoma]

Hi Alberto,

 

I really like your shot and I know how do you feel by setting up a tripod to get a regular shot at night. When I got my D2 I didn't use anything above ISO 100, but I started to appreciate more and more the grain-like noise produced by my D2. Recently, I've been shooting a lot at ISO 200 and 400 and have achieve some nice results. Of course, I am trying to minimize some harsh noise by using Nik Dfine 2. Here are some samples:

 

the first one was taken with ISO400 and the second one with ISO200. Both got post-processed in Nik Dfine 2.

 

Two great photos Carlos - what noise ... I will look into Dfine.

 

Alberto

[carlosecpf]

Hi Alberto,

 

It's important to notice that I played manually with Dfine's sliders of contrast noise and color noise to achieve the results posted. The automated mode got a softer result to my taste.

I got the whole Nik Effects Plug-in Suite, but I believe Dfine is sold separately. You should download the demo and try for yourself.

 

Good luck!

[drdannn]

Sorry I started a new thread when I should have posted these here. This photo is the interior ceiling and walls of El Conquistador restaurant in Hollywood, Ca taken from our table when eating. Camera D2. Settings: Shutter 1/8 handheld, Av 2.0, ISO 200, focal 28mm, no flash, no post processing.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[bill]

May I chip in? These are my favourite (LC-1) night shots:

 

 

 

 

In short, these days the ''old lady'' wouldn't be my ''Dame de nuit'' of choice, but she can do the job.

 

Regards

 

Bill