bill Posted July 20, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 20, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Not a crime - British Journal of Photography I'm posting this here, and a link from the "Advice to photographers in the UK." thread. This is a BJP initiative, and a good one, IMO. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Hi bill, Take a look here Not a Crime. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest BigSplash Posted July 20, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 20, 2009 Not a crime - British Journal of Photography I'm posting this here, and a link from the "Advice to photographers in the UK." thread. This is a BJP initiative, and a good one, IMO. Regards, Bill Frankly I would have thought that if photographers start taking photos of themselves stating that they are not terrorists etc. they will increase the chance of getting on an official database. This is simply advertising themselves as trying to push the limits, and upsetting the authorities. I have often wondered why some people object to being on databases .....if every newborn, and every person (eventually) is DNA tested, fingerprinted and eyeball data is stored of each of us this will I guess help the authorities fight crime, terrorism and immigration issues...so why do people object? If every photographer is identified on a database and this helps the police in their work ...why is this wrong? If we move to a state where taking a photo, or carrying a camera is a crime, then that would be an issue. If someone is taking a photo of a potential terrorist target I see nothing wrong with the authorities asking some questions, Going a step further if the authorities had a database to check against then this would show hopefully that the person is well known (as a Leica nut) and harmless...wouldn't it? Anyhow if we as a Leica Forum cannot push Leica to have UV IR filters available for every Leica lens I doubt that photographers will influence in anyway the behavior of MI5 and the authorities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted July 20, 2009 ...never mind, Frank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted July 20, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 20, 2009 I have just added this to my flickr profile - it seems to work: <a href="http://www.not-a-crime.com/"><img src="http://www.not-a-crime.com/notacrime_small.jpg" /></a> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 20, 2009 Share #5 Posted July 20, 2009 I AM NOT A NUMBER. I AM A FREE MAN Presumably, Frank, you have no objection to the authorities having CCTV in your home, just to make sure you are safe and not being attacked? I think that I have some ideal summer reading for you... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted July 20, 2009 Share #6 Posted July 20, 2009 I AM NOT A NUMBER. I AM A FREE MAN Presumably, Frank, you have no objection to the authorities having CCTV in your home, just to make sure you are safe and not being attacked? I think that I have some ideal summer reading for you... Be seeing you... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 20, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 20, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Clearly we need a national, sorry make that international, database for the authorities to track us photographers. Yes most of us are innocent but we do need to accept that some are terrorists or paedophiles, and sadly we are tarred by their brush. If we accept therefore that a camera can be literally an offensive weapon, lets have then all registed like firearms, and a certificate system put in place. Make it illegal to carry them on public transport too, that will stop a lot of the so called 'holiday photographers'. What's wrong with postcards anyway? Also we need a national register of photographers, that is a register for anyone who would intend using a camera in public - with preferably a permit system put in place. If say you wanted to take some photos in the park, you would apply to the local police for a permit, stating exactly why/when/where you would intend using your camera, and just for everyones safety we should also have to comply with random searches of our computer systems/hard drives/memory cards/neg files etc. After all if you're not doing anything wrong............... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 21, 2009 Share #8 Posted July 21, 2009 ...photojournalists are constantly filmed at public gatherings and their details kept on an ever-growing database... Some photogs don't mind to shoot other people and display their image w/o their consent but they don't want to be shot themselves for it is a breach of their freedom. Reminds me of Cartier Bresson who said that all photogs are thieves but he hated to be shot himself for some reason. Rather be the hunter than the hunted for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted July 21, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 21, 2009 If we accept therefore that a camera can be literally an offensive weapon, lets have then all registed like firearms, and a certificate system put in place. Make it illegal to carry them on public transport too, that will stop a lot of the so called 'holiday photographers'. What's wrong with postcards anyway? Not a bad idea. I think this could easily be consolidated with driver's licenses. There could be a space at the bottom for your endorsements. (We in the states have motorcycle endorsements, for example, and eyeglass endorsements, noting that we are permitted to driver motorcycles as well as cars, but are required to use glasses.) This could easily be extended to cameras, fishing equipment, bicycles, tennis rackets, etc. I personally would support an endorsement for cowboy boots, requiring the holder to show possession of a horse before being allowed to wear cowboy boots. This could be valuable in many areas not only of law enforcement, but of taste. Right now, anybody can walk off the street into a gallery and view Jeff Koons or Damien Hirst. Does this seem *in any way* reasonable? JC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted July 21, 2009 Share #10 Posted July 21, 2009 Hmm...so if everyone holds up a sign saying "I am not a criminal" they must be telling the truth, right? Looks more like a publicity-seeking stunt that gets people talking -- and nothing wrong with that -- but does nothing practical to really address the real issues. Other security suggestions: make everyone buy a cell phone, use a computer, have a bank account, so they can be tracked 24/7. Oh, they do already. To quote from Monty Python: "Everyone's an individual!" Small voice in the crowd pipes up: "I'm not!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted July 21, 2009 Share #11 Posted July 21, 2009 I AM NOT A NUMBER. I AM A FREE MAN Presumably, Frank, you have no objection to the authorities having CCTV in your home, just to make sure you are safe and not being attacked? I think that I have some ideal summer reading for you... Andy where did I mention CCTV in my reply. ? Where did I mention the privacy of my home. I thought the issue was about databases, and photographing in a public place? I actually have no problem with millions of CCTV cameras protecting the public in PUBLIC places. I hope we have many more and the authorities have the resources to use them. regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted July 21, 2009 Share #12 Posted July 21, 2009 Clearly we need a national, sorry make that international, database for the authorities to track us photographers. Yes most of us are innocent but we do need to accept that some are terrorists or paedophiles, and sadly we are tarred by their brush. If we accept therefore that a camera can be literally an offensive weapon, lets have then all registed like firearms, and a certificate system put in place. Make it illegal to carry them on public transport too, that will stop a lot of the so called 'holiday photographers'. What's wrong with postcards anyway? Also we need a national register of photographers, that is a register for anyone who would intend using a camera in public - with preferably a permit system put in place. If say you wanted to take some photos in the park, you would apply to the local police for a permit, stating exactly why/when/where you would intend using your camera, and just for everyones safety we should also have to comply with random searches of our computer systems/hard drives/memory cards/neg files etc. After all if you're not doing anything wrong............... I do not agree. If this were done on an ongoing basis this would be harassment wouldn't it? If people are regularly behaving like terrorists (eg street photographers, professional journalists) on a regular basis surely it would be appropriate to help the authorities to identify them as bona fide (ie a database). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 21, 2009 Share #13 Posted July 21, 2009 CCTV in your own home is the obvious ultimate step along the road of making everyone, including you, a potential terrorist. After all, if you are not doing anything wrong, when you are walking in the street, and you are happy to have unknown people watching you on CCTV, why not extend that into your home? On the assumption that you are not doing anything wrong, of course. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Unfortunately, knowing what is wrong, and what is right, is becoming more problematic as time goes on. Apparently, it's legal to take photographs in the street in the UK, unless some Police officer decides on a whim, that it isn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglouis Posted July 21, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 21, 2009 It is ironic, do you not think, that Orwell's vision of a future where we are all monitored and our life is controlled by government forices is being brought about by the same socialist politics he supported his entire adult life? LouisB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted July 21, 2009 Share #15 Posted July 21, 2009 CCTV in your own home is the obvious ultimate step along the road of making everyone, including you, a potential terrorist. After all, if you are not doing anything wrong, when you are walking in the street, and you are happy to have unknown people watching you on CCTV, why not extend that into your home? On the assumption that you are not doing anything wrong, of course. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Unfortunately, knowing what is wrong, and what is right, is becoming more problematic as time goes on. Apparently, it's legal to take photographs in the street in the UK, unless some Police officer decides on a whim, that it isn't. If a police officer decides on a whim that someone is taking a photo is behaving illegally I guess he or she will arrest that person. My understanding is that there is no law against taking photographs of public buildings etc. so the person will NOT be arrested but will be expected to help the police officer with their enquiries and that is reasonable isn't it? If they are continually being asked to identify themselves, and explain why they are photographing "Big Ben" or a "bus station" then this is harassment isn't it? The idea of having a database and dare I say it "Identity Cards" could show that a person is a Leica nut and takes photos on a regular basis....or is a tourist of middle eastern origin, and a passport to prove it that is in the country for a few days and is photographing likely terrorist targets...... I really feel for the police and how they are supposed to do their job without strong public support, CCTV, databases and Identity cards. I personally get upset being these days asked to remove liquids from my carry on luggage, then am asked to remove my belt, my watch and my shoes to be scanned at airport check in but the alternative if this is not dones is probably not good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 21, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 21, 2009 Frank, you make the argument that more CCTV, ID cards, databases etc would only help combat terrorism and crime. So, you can only agree that mandatory monitoring of all our communications, CCTV with audio pick up installed in every home would help catch criminals up to no good, constant police searches of us and our property, foreign travel only allowed if you apply to the govt first, and they sanction your journey, tag everyone so the police know exactly where you are at any time, maybe a bar code tattoo'd on our foreheads to avoid people using fake ID's, where do you want to draw the line? Surely you don't think of it as harassment simply to help society beat crime, whatever it takes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted July 21, 2009 Share #17 Posted July 21, 2009 Frank, you make the argument that more CCTV, ID cards, databases etc would only help combat terrorism and crime. So, you can only agree that mandatory monitoring of all our communications, CCTV with audio pick up installed in every home would help catch criminals up to no good, constant police searches of us and our property, foreign travel only allowed if you apply to the govt first, and they sanction your journey, tag everyone so the police know exactly where you are at any time, maybe a bar code tattoo'd on our foreheads to avoid people using fake ID's, where do you want to draw the line? Surely you don't think of it as harassment simply to help society beat crime, whatever it takes? > Monitoring of al our communications......this has happened since years, without a judges approval. They listen for key words I believe. > CCTV in the home...I repeat what you do in your home is your own business unless the authorities have reason to believe that you are printing bank notes, building bombs or whatever and then a judge signs off to let them instal CCTV, and microphones. I have no issue with that. > Constant police searches etc ...that is harassment and is against the law, and should be against the law in my view. > I do not believe in a police state so there needs to be rules but I also think we the public should help the authorities to combat serious crime and terrorism. > Some authorities are using the anti terrorist CCTV legislation to catch people dropping litter and this should also be against the law I think (however maybe not.) > In S. France they are using CCTV on helicopters to identify dangerous drivers, typically on drugs, on the motorway....Is this wrong ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted July 21, 2009 Share #18 Posted July 21, 2009 Well invasion of privacy has been an issue long before 11/9 and I suspect it will be long after the debate around photography moves on to another activity that can be creatively linked to terrorism. So to stay on topic, I am personally not worried about the threat of arrest whenever I lift the camera to my eye because there are no grounds for that. What annoys me is officers stopping me in my tracks all the time asking me what I am doing (when it should be obvious) and what I have been doing, by looking at my photo history, and then telling me what I can't do, which I haven't done in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted July 21, 2009 Share #19 Posted July 21, 2009 I dunno, I understand the viewpoint of lets keep everyone safe but it is still very irksome when one's law abiding life is interfered with by someone who could be the wrong sort of person to have that power. There is a balance to be found. At the moment I believe that balance is not correct. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted July 21, 2009 Share #20 Posted July 21, 2009 It is ironic, do you not think, that Orwell's vision of a future where we are all monitored and our life is controlled by government forices is being brought about by the same socialist politics he supported his entire adult life? LouisB Presumably you are referring to China? Any connection between Socialism and the current UK administration is tenuous in the extreme. Keir Hardie (and his cap) must be spinning in his grave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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