lct Posted July 16, 2011 Share #1 Posted July 16, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Excerpts of Stefan Daniel's interview in Paris (Réponses Photo # 233, August 2011, page 12): Stefan Daniel: « le M9 ne durera pas 18 ans comme l'a fait le M6 (…). Une période de trois ans me semble un bon cycle de vie pour un boîtier numérique ». Free translation: The M9 will not last 18 years as the M6 did (…). A three years period seems to me a good life cycle for a digital body. Stefan Daniel: « nous comptons bien offrir à moyen terme (…) un appareil comprenant une visée live view et un autofocus comme le X1, mais avec des objectifs interchangeables. (…) le format APS-C me semble offrir le meilleur compromis en matière de taille de capteur ». Free translation: In the medium term, we are planning to offer a camera including live view and autofocus a la X1, but with interchangeable lenses. (…) the APS-C format seems to me to offer the best compromise as regards sensor size. Stefan Daniel: « La marque possède déjà deux gammes optiques, les M et les S, en développer une troisième serait compliqué ». Free translation: The brand has two lens ranges already, M and S, developping a third one would be complicated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Hi lct, Take a look here Stefan Daniel: New M and APS-C soon?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Hakku Posted July 16, 2011 Share #2 Posted July 16, 2011 First sentence might imply we will see the M10 at Photokina 2012. Last sentence sounds the new medium sized camera - let's call it "XM" - will take M lenses, no new lens set up. But how to manage autofocus then? H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumu Posted July 16, 2011 Share #3 Posted July 16, 2011 First sentence might imply we will see the M10 at Photokina 2012. Last sentence sounds the new medium sized camera - let's call it "XM" - will take M lenses, no new lens set up. But how to manage autofocus then? H. by moving the Sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Esslinger Posted July 16, 2011 Share #4 Posted July 16, 2011 Last sentence sounds the new medium sized camera - let's call it "XM" - will take M lenses, no new lens set up. But how to manage autofocus then? H. Maybe they will offer in addition to the M lenses just one AF lens, let's say a zoom to attract new users. These could then buy M lenses and later upgrade to an M9/10. So people are not stuck with a 1500 Euro camera such as the X1 if they become infected with the "I-want-more-Leica" virus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindolfi Posted July 16, 2011 Share #5 Posted July 16, 2011 Those are amazing statements from Daniel. [1] Leica has finally managed to get a fully functioning 24x36mm sensor, offering the full use of their lenses, and now they would scale down again? [2] The M9 is a great marketing success. Even if an APS-C camera would be the next step, what is the use of reducing the expectations of potential M9 buyers in terms of long term support by saying it in an interview? [3] A comparison is made with the M6 and its 18 years. That would mean that Daniel is not thinking about a parallel line of an APS-C camera with a 24x36mm camera, but a replacement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 16, 2011 Share #6 Posted July 16, 2011 That would mean that Daniel is not thinking about a parallel line of an APS-C camera with a 24x36mm camera, but a replacement. Not sure I agree with that, he's talking about the replacement for the M9, not the new mid sized camera IMHO. I can't see how they could possibly decide to replace the M9 with a camera using a smaller sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindolfi Posted July 16, 2011 Share #7 Posted July 16, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well let's hope the lines will grow in parallel, that seems more reasonable given the development. It would be good to read the whole interview to avoid misunderstanding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleskin Posted July 16, 2011 Share #8 Posted July 16, 2011 If Leca must crop the sensor, why offer APS C? They already have the M8 1.3 crop which is fine. Any more crop and too much frame of expensive Leica M lenses is wasted! 1.3 crop is the most I could tolerate. I would assume this new camera will have much better high ISO too. If not, why buy it? Just stick to a used M8 or M9 and if you want APS C , buy the new Ricoh GRX and M module! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleskin Posted July 16, 2011 Share #9 Posted July 16, 2011 I cannot believe leica would offer the M10 with a smaller sensor. What they should do is improve the high ISO and make standard the chrome finish of the M9 P. I really wish they would only offer the M9 P to simplify production. That way, they could reduce price somewhat and give us the M9 or 10 the way it should be. The paint finish just does not do it for me for such an expensive camera. My IPhone has a better finish than the black or silver paint. A smaller sensor at 1.3 crop ala M8 in the M10 would only make sense if it was 12 megapixel, lower price, and offered much better high ISO. I would consider that over more megapixels and full frame. They could offer 2 types of M 10 camera. One with high megapixel, the other, cheaper, with an M8 sized sensor with much better high ISO. $7,000 USD for full frame. $5000 USD for the 1.3 crop high ISO model. I would buy the $5000 USD high ISO M 10 12 megapixel over the full frame at 7k! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickgrafixstop Posted July 16, 2011 Share #10 Posted July 16, 2011 Interesting these comments come closely after the Fuji announcement that they are "re-entering the interchangeable lens market". I would think any new camera format would have to target users "new" to Leica - not the readers of this forum or those "experienced" film users who haven't quite made the leap to electronics. An APS-C offering with traditional image quality at an "affordable" price just may lure some of the folks who will be tempted by the nikon/canon mirrorless offerings to try it and be an upgrade path for folks who get frustrated with m4/3 limitations. Leica is just coming off the best financial performance quarter in years and Solms has got to like it. Unfortunately, upgrades and replacements market is relatively short lived unless you have a more agressive product plan and manufacturing capacity than Leica appears to have. They need to expand the brand and the APS-C liveview offering may be an excellent way to do it - but they better do it quickly or lose the window of opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted July 16, 2011 Share #11 Posted July 16, 2011 Daniel is talking of two cameras, the replacement of the M9 camera (the M10), and the new X-like camera with interchangeable lenses. The APS-C format is nice but not for use of M lenses, R lenses nor for product differentiation. The competition in the APS-C, mirrorless, evf market will be really strong in a year (already is). Leica abandoned the R system considering it was impossible for Leica to face the strong competition, and now they jump to that sharks pound? It seems Daniel is pointing to an APS-C camera without rangefinder but with M mount and a few AF M lenses (not a complete new "system"). It is a good strategy but the format should be 24x36. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 16, 2011 Share #12 Posted July 16, 2011 It is inconceivable that they would bring out a new M with a smaller than full frame sensor. That would be the "m" instead of the "M" or even the "µm". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share #13 Posted July 16, 2011 Stefan Daniel is indeed referring to two different cameras, the next full frame M and the future APS-C with interchangeable lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleskin Posted July 16, 2011 Share #14 Posted July 16, 2011 Anyone, Leica included, that builds a full frame mirrorless EVF camera with an M mount will have created in essence, the first truly universal digital camera, meaning that with adaptors, one can mount any lens ever created for 35mm cameras (SLR and Rangefinder) and all DSLR's. The first camera maker that does this will have my business. If it has a hot shoe, you could have a clip on EVF viewfinder, or an optical viewfinder with focus confirmation light. You could also have a Zoom optical finder and use live view close up for focus. Used lens prices would then skyrocket. Leica, Nikon, Canon, old classics from Minolta, Olympus, etc,,, Imagine the creative possibilities!!!!!!! And in full frame!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted July 16, 2011 Share #15 Posted July 16, 2011 The technology for that type of camera is here, if the format is APS-C, but... ...there are no precedents in 24x36 format. i think it will be possible, just because Canon or Nikon will develop further the video capabilities of their reflex systems. But it is not easy: power consumption, heat disipation, high frame rate video signal for the viewfinder (next generation EVF may be 3MB resolution, 120 fps), contrast-based AF on a large sensor, etc. it would be great a 24x36 format but I am not sure how or when Leica would be able to get that. In comparison, a "simple" rangefinder based on a new CMOS seems easy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 16, 2011 Share #16 Posted July 16, 2011 That would be the "m" instead of the "M" or even the "µm". ...pronounced Ummm.... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 16, 2011 Share #17 Posted July 16, 2011 ...meaning that with adaptors, one can mount any lens ever created for 35mm cameras (SLR and Rangefinder) and all DSLR's. How would AF DSLR lenses that lack an aperture ring work? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4X5B&W Posted July 16, 2011 Share #18 Posted July 16, 2011 How would AF DSLR lenses that lack an aperture ring work? Great so long as you don't want to stop them down Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted July 16, 2011 Share #19 Posted July 16, 2011 Perhaps they are thinking of new M lenses that are small and will only cover APS C and they will be AF. Manual focus that exist now, could also be used. Think Nikon DX lenses. Leica could get back to the original concept of a small portable camera and lenses to match. Lenses just keep getting bigger and bigger. Screw mount size would be fine. They will have to make sure there is production capacity to make the AF lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted July 16, 2011 Share #20 Posted July 16, 2011 Wouldn't be M lenses if they only cover a smaller frame. With the M8, Leica already had the ideal product for such lenses, but didn't make any. IMHO, it has to be a new mount with AF etc; maybe an M adapter, or maybe an adapter for some M lenses (e.g. no wide angles due to microlens expense). (I'm assuming a smaller-format camera would be less expensive than the M.) Just speculation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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