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Lessons of the Monochrom


jaapv

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I'll get back to you in Mid October, when I try out my loaner in Paris and Berlin. Not so sure about the composition "rule." There can be a tendency for things to be too bold and conventional. There really are no rules, but it's true that when you shoot in black and white you have to see in black and white, which is why this machine concentrates the mind. I am looking forward to your images, Jaap.

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A composition rule cannot be hard and fast I agree. I can think of highly detailed B_W images of great quality. But in my experience strong forms work best. Again, color can cover a multitude of (compositional) sins.

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A composition rule cannot be hard and fast I agree. I can think of highly detailed B_W images of great quality. But in my experience strong forms work best. Again, color can cover a multitude of (compositional) sins.

 

This brought a smile to my face, Jaap, because I like to argue that it's B&W that conceals things that wouldn't work in colour. All you need in monochrome are some nice strong forms for your composition; in colour you have to deal with the palette too!

 

I guess we agree that they're two different things, and that one can't get good B&W just by converting images that weren't satisfactory in colour.:)

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I've been shooting it in these last few days and learnt a few things:

 

Lesson 1: Light

Color photography has made me sloppy with light. Photographs without interesting light can often be saved by interesting color. With the Monochrom: forget it. Dustbin.

 

Lesson 2: Composition.

Like before, with B&W film, the best compositions have bold forms. Busy detail, not so good.

Back twenty years ;)

 

What are the lessons this harsh mistress has been teaching you?

 

Not sure what you mean by interesting light, but I can suggest that a MM image with a limited range of tones without highlight clipping and which does not require a good deal of pulling up of the shadows can readily provide a delicate imagine. I have to ask whether our switch to colour has made us insist on images with some "punch".

 

I have a lot to learn on how to make good use of curves to get the best from MM images involving a wide range of tones -- on the whole, but not always, I try to prevent highlight clipping at expose and pull back the shadows in post processing.

 

There is much to relearn about filters and discover how they work on the MM. I have used an old light yellow filter to good effect and it has become my standard filter, but I need to experiment more. As an aside, I found myself recalling this old adage: "FP4, yellow filter, sun over shoulder, 1/125 sec, f11"! I can note that with strong light I may be looking to neutral density filters to allow use of wide apertures.

 

A harsh mistress? For me, highlight clipping is the main rod to bear. It is not clear even the raw histogram is adequate on this front. As I have already suggested, if you expose for the highlights when the range of tones is large then post processing can be far from trivial, but that reflects in part my inexperience with curves. When processing colour images I find levels is usually enough. I guess good usage of curves will be akin to choice of developer, dilution and agitation when using B&W film.

 

I am not sure I will continue to use very high ISOs (6400 and above) as noise readily becomes an issue here. If pushed I can see my using ISO 5000. It is not unusual for the highest usable ISO to be half the maximum available.

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...What are the lessons this harsh mistress has been teaching you?
Jaap, I finally got my M-Monochrom on Wednesday and, as luck would have it, have been too busy to shoot more than 30 frames and these are all forgettable, expect that one that has good tones. I normally don't have a problem coming up with B&W shots that I like, with a hit rate of, say, 10%. That is something that I have not yet achieved with the M-Monochrom, and am a little frustrated that I don't have anything to post, but this is a camera that one has to learn to use, which is why the subject of this thread is a good one. Indeed, I was thinking of starting a thread like this one and am interested in two types of issues:

 

(1) Methods of processing of M-Monochrom, related to how one exposes the files: e.g., exposing for the highlights (of course), but how much underexposure should on aim for, especially in the dynamic situation of street photography where the light can change a lot from one to the other side of the street. [A good starting point for LR4 processing are this post by Marc (fotografz) as well as this one].

 

(2) Methods of exposure: I'm interested in the issues related to using manual vs aperture priority exposure metering — I've always used manual — and manual setting of ISO vs using Auto-ISO. My feeling is if one is going to use Autoi-ISO, it's best together with aperture priority metering. However, I like the Soft and Discreet shutter release functions; but it seems to me that the use of the Soft release is not advisable with Aperture Priority because metering memory lock is not available. (I suppose these same issues apply to the M9).

 

—Mitch/Paris

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I've been shooting it in these last few days and learnt a few things:

 

Lesson 1: Light

Color photography has made me sloppy with light. Photographs without interesting light can often be saved by interesting color. With the Monochrom: forget it. Dustbin.

 

Lesson 2: Composition.

Like before, with B&W film, the best compositions have bold forms. Busy detail, not so good.

Back twenty years ;)

 

What are the lessons this harsh mistress has been teaching you?

 

 

My question to you is, if this mistress is more harsher than a Tmax 400 film?

I still shoot with it on regular bases and ask myself if the transition from Tmax to MM will be more fluent for me?

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I couldn't agree more, Jaap. As I tried to describe in my 'Musings' thread, I likewise instantly found that "color photography has made me sloppy with light" - a great way of putting it. Shooting with a camera that allows color/B&W choice after the fact diminishes the need for pre-visualization. Color does, at times, cover a multitude of sins. And, likewise, being able to convert to B&W has saved many an image - especially those tainted with too much noise and/or a cascade of light temperatures.

 

Alas, I think there's a cost for that convenience.

 

Like I've frequently done in the past - where I'll limit myself to a single focal length for a period of time, forcing me start seeing scenes through the prism of that particular lens - I'm now forcing myself to use only my Monochrom for awhile. After three weeks I can say I am, indeed, starting to see things differently. Just like days of yore, when I'd walk out the door with Tri-X in my pocket, a couple filters in hand, and not much else.

 

I'm deeply loving the Monochrom...

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I've been shooting it in these last few days and learnt a few things:

 

Lesson 1: Light

Color photography has made me sloppy with light. Photographs without interesting light can often be saved by interesting color. With the Monochrom: forget it. Dustbin.

 

Lesson 2: Composition.

Like before, with B&W film, the best compositions have bold forms. Busy detail, not so good.

Back twenty years ;)

 

No offense, but these types of 'lessons' should be common sense to anyone who uses their M8 or M9 for extensive b/w, especially those who have a b/w film background. I once commented to you that I thought you were primarily a color photographer, and you surprised me by saying that you were the opposite, primarily b/w. I think you were not.

 

But, no matter...whatever it takes to get you in the right mode...and good that the Monochrom is getting you there.

 

Jeff

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50-50 i.e now M9+MM ;) They are in my bag companionably both with a 50 on.

Before Kodachrome and Ilford in various guises.:) Two bodies as well.

 

Is this a response to my post above? If so, it has nothing to do with the slice of bread. B/W photography happens in your head, not based on what's in your bag IMO. The lessons you learned are about learning to 'see in b/w'. I don't need a MM for that. Your experience differs.

 

Jeff

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... this is a camera that one has to learn to use, which is why the subject of this thread is a good one. Indeed, I was thinking of starting a thread like this one and am interested in two types of issues:

 

(1) Methods of processing of M-Monochrom, related to how one exposes the files: e.g., exposing for the highlights (of course), but how much underexposure should on aim for, ...

 

(2) Methods of exposure: I'm interested in the issues related to using manual vs aperture priority exposure metering — I've always used manual — and manual setting of ISO vs using Auto-ISO. My feeling is if one is going to use Autoi-ISO, it's best together with aperture priority metering.

 

Hi Mitch,

 

I have the same issues. I have been experimenting with my M9, trying to use it as a Monochrom, with mixed success (mostly due to limited available time).

 

On your second point, while you might factor in ISO as an issue for you photographs, leaving aside composition and focusing, my first consideration is depth of field, followed by shutter speed. ISO is low on my list. Particularly as I expect the Monochrom to be good most of the way across its ISO range.

 

So, I have been experimenting with manual aperture, manual shutter, and Auto ISO, with Max ISO set in the menu. That way, I have good control over what really matters to me, and the camera deals with what I view as being less critical to the final image. I have also dusted off my light meter, but that is problematic,as you set the ISO first ...

 

I wouldn't use aperture priority and auto ISO together - with the M9, I've noticed the camera is better with one decision to make.

 

Cheers

John

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My question to you is, if this mistress is more harsher than a Tmax 400 film?

I still shoot with it on regular bases and ask myself if the transition from Tmax to MM will be more fluent for me?

 

I have to suggest highlight clipping on the MM is more abrupt compared to film; shadow information less so but you may have to drag it out of the files. Film producers would target specific development processes e.g Kodak would suggest particular developers, dilutions etc for Tmax. Users and third parties would experiment with alternatives, but you had a base line to start from. With the MM I do not see Leica offering the equivalent e.g settings in LR4. I think we users will need to experiment; I hope some will share experiences.

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I would disagree that one needs to "see in b&w." For me it's the opposite; most everything can be easily photographed in b&w because of the process after (see below) but seeing color can be much more tricky because of color balance etc etc.

 

My list as priority goes:

 

composition

subject or moment

lighting

 

Now all three work together, but one can have poor lighting and make it better/more interesting later (post processing), and without good composition even the most amazing subject/moment can be rendered poorly, though just mere composition without intent of subject can be just an exercise in masturbation.

 

Where seeing b&w comes in is after the fact - the negative in the darkroom, now the file in the computer. If one doesn't master that aspect (or have somebody who has it done for them) then even the greatest photograph can appear mediocre. What is done to the file/negative sets the mood (ie "lighting") and the intent of the image.

 

I do have a feeling that the monochrome may be a difficult tool for those not well versed in this process and may actually create b&w images worse than if just shot with a color digital camera and converted normally. So far that is what I've mostly seen though I'm sure there's photographers out there proving otherwise.

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I have to suggest highlight clipping on the MM is more abrupt compared to film; shadow information less so but you may have to drag it out of the files. Film producers would target specific development processes e.g Kodak would suggest particular developers, dilutions etc for Tmax. Users and third parties would experiment with alternatives, but you had a base line to start from. With the MM I do not see Leica offering the equivalent e.g settings in LR4. I think we users will need to experiment; I hope some will share experiences.

 

I do not have a MM - yet but I use a back that came with several curves preprogramed as well as several curves I added for specific purposes such as extra shadow detail or midtone boosts. I'm sure the same type of adjustment curve could be worked out for Lightroom or PS.

 

Here's an example or two:

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