noah_addis Posted January 19, 2010 Share #1 Posted January 19, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ok, so I've noticed a vertical line in many of my M9 photos, it appears on the left side of the frame consistently in the same spot. It's most noticeable in frames at ISO 1600+ and also is most noticable when that area of the frame is in a shadow area. To clarify, the line is always in the same spot. If that area of the frame is taken over by a highlight area, it's harder to see. But if that area of the frame is a naturally occuring shadow area (dark background, etc., it's much easier to see.) Is this the line problem I've heard of? Does the camera need to go back to Leica? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/110053-is-this-the-dreaded-line/?do=findComment&comment=1192534'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 Hi noah_addis, Take a look here Is this the dreaded Line?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
adan Posted January 19, 2010 Share #2 Posted January 19, 2010 My understanding from a Leica rep is that this consistent line at only high ISOs (which she noticed in her first demo camera as early as 9/9/09 - upgraded to FW 1.002) is something that can and will be addressed in firmware, based on what Leica told her when she reported it. (I see it also) Others have seen more - variable - lines. Or lines that show up at all ISOs. Which may be something different, and require Leica service. I would wait until at least the next FW upgrade to see if that does actually solve it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptiste Posted January 19, 2010 Share #3 Posted January 19, 2010 shifted colors + high ISOS only... I might be wrong, but it does not seem to be a hardware issue. Though, one could wonder about something in the signal acquisition, if factorized by column, in that case), assuming that the camera is working so (I fairly don't know about the architecture of the APU) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michali Posted January 19, 2010 Share #4 Posted January 19, 2010 I would email Leica Customer Service in both Germany & USA with images attached and get their opinion. I can't comment on Leica USA, however I have had extremely efficient assistance from Leica CS Germany in 2 recent cases, they responded promptly and know what they're talking about. My first experience was with a similar line problem to yours on my M8.2 & last week with a mis-aligned range finder after dropping my M9. In both cases I sent the cameras in which were repaired and turned around within a couple of days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted January 19, 2010 Share #5 Posted January 19, 2010 Ok, so I've noticed a vertical line in many of my M9 photos, it appears on the left side of the frame consistently in the same spot. It's most noticeable in frames at ISO 1600+ and also is most noticable when that area of the frame is in a shadow area. To clarify, the line is always in the same spot. If that area of the frame is taken over by a highlight area, it's harder to see. But if that area of the frame is a naturally occuring shadow area (dark background, etc., it's much easier to see.) Is this the line problem I've heard of? Does the camera need to go back to Leica? tim ashley had the same kind of problem on his new S2 ( a line which appeared at high isos) and leica sent him a firmware fix that did the correct pixel mapping. peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lainer1 Posted January 19, 2010 Share #6 Posted January 19, 2010 tim ashley had the same kind of problem on his new S2 ( a line which appeared at high isos) and leica sent him a firmware fix that did the correct pixel mapping.peter Geez, you'd think that for the amount of money being paid for Leica gear, there would be none of these issues! Kind of scary! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 19, 2010 Share #7 Posted January 19, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Geez, you'd think that for the amount of money being paid for Leica gear, there would be none of these issues! Kind of scary! You`ve got to put it in perspective. Every camera model, regardless of cost, can develop some kinds of technical issue, and sensor issues in partcular (stuck pixels etc...) happen on all digicams sooner or later. Of course, no-one cares on a $100 camera It`s a limitation of technology though. I admit It does seem extra disturbing when it happens ``sooner``--though that`s usually the way electronics go in general, and at least then it`s under warranty. IMO the real test of a company like Leica is how quickly and thoroughly they fix problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share #8 Posted January 19, 2010 After further testing I've noticed two things. First, the line goes straight through what I guess is a dead pixel. Second, while it's more noticeable at high ISO, it's there even at 160. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adli Posted January 19, 2010 Share #9 Posted January 19, 2010 After further testing I've noticed two things. First, the line goes straight through what I guess is a dead pixel. Second, while it's more noticeable at high ISO, it's there even at 160. It is the infamous hot pixel / vertical line problem caused by dead pixels. I had the same on my M8. Did send the M8 to Leica who replaced the sensor. With my camera it was also more noticable at high ISO, especially when taking many pictures in a row. BTW, Leica refered to it as a "a pixel line fault" after they had analyzed my sample pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 19, 2010 Share #10 Posted January 19, 2010 It is said this kind of defect is caused by cosmic radiation. If it is limited it can be mapped out, in other cases the sensor will be replaced. On the S2 it seems there is a system to map it without sending the camera in, as Leica will analyze a file and send back an updated firmware. If Leica says wait for the M9 firmware update it may be worth waiting for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted January 19, 2010 Share #11 Posted January 19, 2010 Geez, you'd think that for the amount of money being paid for Leica gear, there would be none of these issues! Kind of scary! What is it you are scared of? Life is comprised of scary situations, you just need to rationalise them and you may find you can get by. If a camera scares you it may be worth thinking about some help, but solace may be found in the knowledge that every anomaly has a cause, and often you will find it benign when worked out through therapy. I hope that helps. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted January 20, 2010 Share #12 Posted January 20, 2010 Fortunately this is a small defect, but it may be scary if your income and reputation are based on delivering good photographs free of vertical line defects. It may be scary if a defect runs through all of the photographs of your clients' once-in-a-lfetime event. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthury Posted January 20, 2010 Share #13 Posted January 20, 2010 It is said this kind of defect is caused by cosmic radiation. I did not see a smiley icon there so I take it that you are serious about this statement. What documentations and scientific fact do you have to postulate this? Or, was this some whims to entertain us? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 20, 2010 Share #14 Posted January 20, 2010 http://www.jai.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Camera_Solutions_Application_Tech_Note/TechNote-TH-1087-CosmicRays.pdf Think twice about using air express to deliver your new M9 - probability of damage is about 80x greater at 30,000 ft (9km) than at sea level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthury Posted January 20, 2010 Share #15 Posted January 20, 2010 http://www.jai.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Camera_Solutions_Application_Tech_Note/TechNote-TH-1087-CosmicRays.pdf Think twice about using air express to deliver your new M9 - probability of damage is about 80x greater at 30,000 ft (9km) than at sea level. If this is true, why aren't we seeing this phenomenon occurring in all digital cameras; especially, considering how many CCD-based P&S digicams are out there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 20, 2010 Share #16 Posted January 20, 2010 If this is true, why aren't we seeing this phenomenon occurring in all digital cameras; especially, considering how many CCD-based P&S digicams are out there? Because almost every other digital camera has automatic pixel mapping? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 20, 2010 Share #17 Posted January 20, 2010 http://www.jai.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Camera_Solutions_Application_Tech_Note/TechNote-TH-1087-CosmicRays.pdf Think twice about using air express to deliver your new M9 - probability of damage is about 80x greater at 30,000 ft (9km) than at sea level. And there is a warning in both the M8 and M9 manual. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_K Posted January 20, 2010 Share #18 Posted January 20, 2010 Is the dreaded line at the very edge? May be it can be cropped away before printing. And if the photo is not zoomed in, is it very obvious to spot this line? May be users like us know where to spot them but will the customer even notice such a line if we don't say a word and hope the firmware update will come asap to fix it for good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 20, 2010 Share #19 Posted January 20, 2010 If this is true, why aren't we seeing this phenomenon occurring in all digital cameras; especially, considering how many CCD-based P&S digicams are out there?I don't think there are that many of a level that one would notice this kind of artefact, usually extreme JPG compression would take care of it in the general mush of the image. High-end CCD MF cameras do indeed need pixel mapping as routine maintenance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 20, 2010 Share #20 Posted January 20, 2010 If this is true, why aren't we seeing this phenomenon occurring in all digital cameras; especially, considering how many CCD-based P&S digicams are out there? Geez man...let's have a look before we speak on the 'net, shall we? Let me google that for you I'm sure you could make many other searches that would also return similar results. FWIW Every single one of my CMOS-based Canon "pro" (1d2, 5d, 1ds2) cameras needed to be returned to CPS for remapping at one point or another; the 1ds2 needed to go twice. My D3 doesn't exhibit this behaviour... yet. But it will given enough time. The difference between Canon and Leica is that Canon could do this in firmware and would not replace the sensor; that meant a one week turnaround. From Leica, I got a sensor replacement with the M8. That's great (and probably overkill), but it took months. Oh, and people with point and shoots? I don't know, maybe they generally don't care as much about a stuck pixel or high ISO sensor defect. Or maybe the sensor amplification you see in most high-end cameras (in other words, high ISO levels) simply isn't available to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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