Bellows II, 16598J & 280mm Telyt

[david werbeloff]

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Hello All,

 

I ordered adapter ring 16598 from a dealer so that I can mount the lens head of my 280mm Telyt on the Bellows II, yielding a reproduction scale of 1:6.

 

The ring showed up (it's 16598J), fits the Bellows II but doesn't match the thread on the lens head. The lens is the 3rd version of the 280mm Telyt, made by ELC in 1975. Is the "J" suffix significant?

 

I'd much appreciate advice on whether it's possible to make this work.

 

Thank you and best wishes,

David Werbeloff

[luigi bertolotti]

I think the J is not significant... problem is that 16598 was made, originally, for the Summicron 90 lenshead as well as for the Tele Elmarit 135 lenshead... I am not so sure that the 280 3rd version fits into : can be it is different from the 2nd version which, like the 200, could indeed be mounted onto 16598.

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[david werbeloff]

Luigi,

 

Thank you for your response to my question. I fear that you are right: the 3rd version of the 280mm Telyt was not designed to fit the older adapter 16598... Very unlike Leitz to create obsolescence like that. Also, I have the 1973 general catalog which lists the 280mm lens as one that is used with 16598. The mystery continues.

 

Best wishes,

David Werbeloff

[luigi bertolotti]

Luigi,

 

Thank you for your response to my question. I fear that you are right: the 3rd version of the 280mm Telyt was not designed to fit the older adapter 16598... Very unlike Leitz to create obsolescence like that. Also, I have the 1973 general catalog which lists the 280mm lens as one that is used with 16598. The mystery continues.

 

Best wishes,

David Werbeloff

 

... mystery indeed...: the 1964 catalog (so, times of 280 2nd version) does NOT mentions the 280 head in the page that illustrates Bellows + 16598: only 90+135+200 lensheads...

 

Well. I haven't the 16598... but have a 200 f4 and a 280 2nd... tonight I'm going to take both, dismount the lens heads, and try to understand something...

Edited November 18, 2010 by luigi bertolotti

[david werbeloff]

Hello, Luigi,

 

I have solved the mystery!

 

On the front aspect of the 16598 is a circular plate with the ELW mark and the catalog number. This is held to the adapter by three screws. I undid these and removed the plate. Behind that were two circular shims. Without any of these, the thread on the adapter engages the lens head perfectly. With the name plate but without the shims, it barely engages the thread. Too close for comfort. Best without.

 

However, when the adapter and lens head are mounted on the bellows II, the bellows will not retract all the way back (by the same distance as the plate plus two shims) because the rear mount of the lens head comes up against the back plate of the bellows.

 

I think we can deduce then, that it is not optimal to use the 280 Telyt version 3 with the bellows! Earlier versions probably line up perfectly.

 

Best wishes,

David

[luigi bertolotti]

Good, David... but now is MY turn to be in trouble !

 

- Tonight I discovered in my Data Base that I HAVE it (was listed with its original code UOOZK - of course also 16598J was reported)

- But I couldn't FIND IT !

- It is not next to the Bellows II gear, where I found, as must be,16590, 16596, 16558...

- It is not next to the old Summicron 90 (I originally listed it between its accessories), where I found, as must be, ZOOEP and OUEPO...

- It's impossible that I listed it not having one (of course I don't remember when and where bought it... can be 20 years ago or so...)

 

So I have to search better, between the "mixed gear"... unless you frankly confess to have STOLEN mine...

Edited November 18, 2010 by luigi bertolotti

[david werbeloff]

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Luigi,

 

It sounds like you need a better cataloging system... or perhaps more storage space

 

I wish it were true that I had come to Brescia to rifle through your collection! It's been 14 years since I was last there, and two years since I was last in your beautiful country.

 

Best wishes,

David

 

Let us all know if you do find the 16598 and get your 280mm mounted on it.

[jc_braconi]

You have to screw the 280 v3 lens head directly on the bellows 2.

 

[david werbeloff]

Hello, JC,

 

I was hoping you would join in this discussion;)

 

Thank you for posting the photograph above. I examined my lens (which looks identical, so it is version 3) and find that there is a spacer ring of 33mm which sits directly behind the aperture ring on the optical unit. When the lens is assembled to mount directly onto the Visoflex, this 33mm ring slides down into the focus helical and is not visible. I'm not sure if it is meant to unscrew from the optical unit before it is mounted directly on the Bellows II as you have illustrated.

 

In any event, this ring on my lens shows no interest in being removed. I believe strongly that anything that says "E Leitz, Wetzlar" on it, should not be forced! It may be frozen; I bought the lens new in 1982 and have, until recently, never removed the optical unit from the focus helical.

 

Any ideas?!

 

Thank you and best wishes,

David

[jc_braconi]

You will see that only one thread on the lens head works on the bellow II

[luigi bertolotti]

That's OK... I at least found my one... was duly boxed.

The lenshead of my 280 V2 screws in perfectly on the ring, which has a rather "long" thread... I dismounted the 3 screws, and there are not shims behind.

Funny enough, my 16598 has two engraved characters that are unfilled with white paint..

 

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The 280 with Viso + Bellows is really a heavy combo... I made a quick test with M8 (minimum distance, Bellows fully extended, is around 2 meters) but with insufficient stabilization...blurred pic... if tomorrow is strong raining as today, maybe I'll setup a decent comparision 280-200-135 heads... a set I never used in real life.

 

.

And, David... really you were in Brescia ? JC too (hi JC ! no surprise you joined in.. would I have seen your posts before, I should have taken the picture of the Bellows complete with a CERTAIN M3 and a CERTAIN Viso III )

Edited November 20, 2010 by luigi bertolotti

[jc_braconi]

Luigi you show a V2 head, screwed on the 16598 to be connected on the bellows II

I showed a V3 head screwed directly on the Bellows II, as David said his lens directly connect on the Visoflex (only the V3 has the M bayonet)

[luigi bertolotti]

Luigi you show a V2 head, screwed on the 16598 to be connected on the bellows II

I showed a V3 head screwed directly on the Bellows II, as David said his lens directly connect on the Visoflex (only the V3 has the M bayonet)

 

Yes, that's clear... and indeed, one can say that with the 280V3 Leitz made simpler the usage on the bellows... no need for the adapter ring; but, what I find a bit puzzling is what David said of his catalog from 1973 , which detailed 16598 as a ring for 280 lenshead.. the 280V3 entered in 1970... I should be curios to read exactly what is written in that catalog: usually they were very detailed in which devices is for which lens, in case specifying to/from which serial number...

[jc_braconi]

Yes, that's clear... and indeed, one can say that with the 280V3 Leitz made simpler the usage on the bellows... no need for the adapter ring; but, what I find a bit puzzling is what David said of his catalog from 1973 , which detailed 16598 as a ring for 280 lenshead.. the 280V3 entered in 1970... I should be curios to read exactly what is written in that catalog: usually they were very detailed in which devices is for which lens, in case specifying to/from which serial number...

I have one in front of me : at page 48 theTELYT 1: 4.8/280 illustrated is a V3 also the lens head and 10mm adaptor rings for near focusing.

At page 70 the 16598 is illustrated but it looks like it was not updated because it is writed for use of head lens for 90,135,200 and 280... a mistake I think.

[david werbeloff]

Hello, JC & Luigi,

 

Now I'm curious what year of production your V3 280mm is... Mine is 2757xxx of 1975.

According to the 7th Edition Leica Pocket Book, this lens was in production until 1984. Perhaps yours is later and by that time Leitz had figured out that the lens head could be mounted on the Bellows II without the 16598. Either that or that 33mm ring behind the aperture ring on mine is meant to come off somehow. I suspect it is a light baffle. At any rate, I can make my lens work on the Bellows with the 16598, albeit without the spacer ring and shims. The information in the 1973 catalog p.70 may actually be correct for a V3 280mm lens of that period.

 

This has turned into rather an interesting topic, and thank you both for sharing from your wonderful collections.

 

Best wishes,

David

[jc_braconi]

Hello, JC & Luigi,

 

Now I'm curious what year of production your V3 280mm is... Mine is 2757xxx of 1975.

 

code 11912 s/n 2 816 000 y/p 1977

Please post a pict of your lens, complete and head lens.

[david werbeloff]

Hello, JC,

 

I will try to photograph the lens and upload the images tonight. Bear with me.

 

Best,

David

[zeitz]

JC, are you sure the V3 head screws into the Bellows II correctly? The second thread on the V2 head, which mounts the 14138 adapater, is a slightly different diameter and a different pitch (0.75 vs 1.0) compared to the Bellows II lens adapter thread. I don't have a V3, so I could be wrong and Leica may have changed that thread from V2 to V3..

[jc_braconi]

JC, are you sure the V3 head screws into the Bellows II correctly? The second thread on the V2 head, which mounts the 14138 adapater, is a slightly different diameter and a different pitch (0.75 vs 1.0) compared to the Bellows II lens adapter thread. I don't have a V3, so I could be wrong and Leica may have changed that thread from V2 to V3..

Look at the picture above please.

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Hallo,

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[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

 

Version III is 11914. Detachable lens head is 11904. 11904 directly attaches to Bellows II. 11914 bayonets directly into Visoflex II or III.

 

Version II is 11912. Detachable lens head is 11901. 11901 attaches to 14138 which attaches directly to the Televit.11912 attaches directly to Visoflex I. It attaches to Visoflexes II & III w/ 16466.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited November 22, 2010 by Michael Geschlecht