Birding with the Leica R

[dave.gt]

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These days, thanks to a forced retirement and such, we have become interested in birding. Nothing serious, mind you, but enough to want to learn more about the birds we have visiting us and get some really nice images.

 

At the moment, the R4 and 50mm will not do it so I need to look at a really good lens and have been thinking about the 400mm telyt. It appears to be a bargain in price.

 

Another option would be the X1 with a digiscope but those appear to be super expensive.

 

So, I am back to the R system as I prefer it over my Nikon MF bodies. Either way, I would like to get an R8 or R9 with a decent tele or zoom lens. What is your recommendation?

[wildlightphoto]

These days, thanks to a forced retirement and such, we have become interested in birding. Nothing serious, mind you, but enough to want to learn more about the birds we have visiting us and get some really nice images.

 

At the moment, the R4 and 50mm will not do it so I need to look at a really good lens and have been thinking about the 400mm telyt. It appears to be a bargain in price.

 

Another option would be the X1 with a digiscope but those appear to be super expensive.

 

So, I am back to the R system as I prefer it over my Nikon MF bodies. Either way, I would like to get an R8 or R9 with a decent tele or zoom lens. What is your recommendation?

 

For many years I used a Leicaflex SL and 400mm f/6.8 Telyt for birds (http://www.wildlightphoto.com). With a 35mm film camera, 400mm is about the minimum focal length most people can use successfully for birds. The 560mm f/6.8 Telyt is also quite useful but can be more challenging to handle.

[dave.gt]

For many years I used a Leicaflex SL and 400mm f/6.8 Telyt for birds (www.wildlightphoto.com). With a 35mm film camera, 400mm is about the minimum focal length most people can use successfully for birds. The 560mm f/6.8 Telyt is also quite useful but can be more challenging to handle.

 

Ah, yes, thanks, Doug...the 560 is also not that high in price. I suppose the shoulder rig should also be considered?

 

Now, given these two lenses (400 and 560), would I be better served with these on a film body R camera, or would it be better to think along the lines of the V-Lux 2/3 or even using a digiscope with the X1?

[andybarton]

I used to own a 560 Telyt - it was a real beast, but great quality.

 

You need to make sure if you buy either of these that you have the shoulder stock and a remote shutter trigger. The latter was missing on mine, which made operating the camera extremely challenging. You will need a motordrive too, of course.

[luigi bertolotti]

Ah, yes, thanks, Doug...the 560 is also not that high in price. I suppose the shoulder rig should also be considered?

 

Now, given these two lenses (400 and 560), would I be better served with these on a film body R camera, or would it be better to think along the lines of the V-Lux 2/3 or even using a digiscope with the X1?

 

A film R with a long traditional tele (which LACKS auto diaphragm, don't forget) and a compact digital with a super zoom (VLux is equivalent to a 600mm about, iirc) are so completely different tools that is really hard to compare them... Imho, it's a lot about the final product you want to have : if you are thinking of 20x30cm or larger prints, the R solution can have sense... for smaller prints or PC/TV viewing, the Vlux is surely much simpler to manage, handle, carry around (but one must not forget that for such focals tripod is mandatory even for a light camera like the Vlux)

[wildlightphoto]

A film R with a long traditional tele (which LACKS auto diaphragm, don't forget) and a compact digital with a super zoom (VLux is equivalent to a 600mm about, iirc) are so completely different tools that is really hard to compare them... Imho, it's a lot about the final product you want to have : if you are thinking of 20x30cm or larger prints, the R solution can have sense... for smaller prints or PC/TV viewing, the Vlux is surely much simpler to manage, handle, carry around (but one must not forget that for such focals tripod is mandatory even for a light camera like the Vlux)

 

Most of the time I don't feel the lack of auto-diaphragm is a problem with the f/6.8 Telyts, they can be used at full aperture with little loss of image quality. In all other respects I agree with Luigi completely, the choice depends a lot on your final product.

[bocaburger]

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I used to own a 560 Telyt - it was a real beast, but great quality.

 

You need to make sure if you buy either of these that you have the shoulder stock and a remote shutter trigger. The latter was missing on mine, which made operating the camera extremely challenging. You will need a motordrive too, of course.

 

Another advantage of these Telyts is that with a not-costly R-to-EOS adapter they can be used on any Canon EOS body including the digital ones. In reasonable light (and with decent eyesight) focusing are not a problem. On the APS-C DSLRs the 400 is effectively a 640 and the 560 would be like almost a 900!

 

Those cameras have built-in motor drives and can be fitted with remote releases, although I've never used either. I would imagine that the newer EOS DSLRs that take HD movies would also expand the usefulness of the Telyts.

 

I do have a shoulder stock, but prefer a monopod. Of course if mobility isn't paramount, a tripod can't be beat. This discussion makes me want to get out and find some birds to photograph

[wildlightphoto]

I do have a shoulder stock, but prefer a monopod. Of course if mobility isn't paramount, a tripod can't be beat. This discussion makes me want to get out and find some birds to photograph

 

I normally combine the shoulder stock and monopod. The oldest model of the 14188 shoulder stock has a flat bar instead of a hand grip, and in the bar is a threaded hole where I've attached a QR plate. The monopod has a tilt head and QR clamp.

[dave.gt]

I normally combine the shoulder stock and monopod. The oldest model of the 14188 shoulder stock has a flat bar instead of a hand grip, and in the bar is a threaded hole where I've attached a QR plate. The monopod has a tilt head and QR clamp.

 

Doug, that sounds very good and would love to see a photo of that setup.

[budrichard]

"Another option would be the X1 with a digiscope but those appear to be super expensive."

 

Digiscoping is connecting a digital camera to a spotting scope.

I have recently acquired a Leica Televid 82 and am currently deciding which digital camera to mate to the Televid. I have seen some excellent work done with this scope by the Leica USA Sporting Optics Manager. The are even video clips available taken with this scope on YouTube.

It's quite expensive and of course is different than a shoulder mounted camera but it's the future among birders.

I would not at this point in time go with analog technology.-Dick

[dave.gt]

"Another option would be the X1 with a digiscope but those appear to be super expensive."

 

Digiscoping is connecting a digital camera to a spotting scope.

I have recently acquired a Leica Televid 82 and am currently deciding which digital camera to mate to the Televid. I have seen some excellent work done with this scope by the Leica USA Sporting Optics Manager. The are even video clips available taken with this scope on YouTube.

It's quite expensive and of course is different than a shoulder mounted camera but it's the future among birders.

I would not at this point in time go with analog technology.-Dick

 

Yes, I agree that digiscoping would be best in a lot of regards. Cost right now to get started is a huge consideration though. So, I may be able to pick up a 400 telyt for a fraction of the cost of a digiscope.

 

There are some great images with the X1 and the Televid on Flickr.

 

Checking Nikon scopes, I don't see a lot of price differences among similar scopes so I would certainly like to stick with the 82, only, my wallet is too thin at the moment.

[wildlightphoto]

Doug, that sounds very good and would love to see a photo of that setup.

 

Here it is, in glorious monochrome:

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[dave.gt]

Here it is, in glorious monochrome:

 

That is indeed a nice rig! I will be spending some time on KEH and elsewhere this week.

 

Doug, do you still shoot a lot with film or do you use digital more these days?

[wildlightphoto]

That is indeed a nice rig! I will be spending some time on KEH and elsewhere this week.

 

Doug, do you still shoot a lot with film or do you use digital more these days?

 

I'm not allowed to answer that question on this forum but at least it's with a Leica R8.

[gvaliquette]

Dave,

 

Also consider the 350mm f4.8 Telyt, with the R8/R9, Motor drive (or DMR), electronic release cable and Leitz gun stock. It is a wonderful setup that I have used extensively on safari in Africa.

 

I have seen the 350 Telyt for about $1000 on eBay recently.

 

Guy

[dave.gt]

Three great choices so far!

 

Ah...I reckon I have a much better argument for the R8 now! I must do this....

[Krauklis]

My way of combining camera/lens + shoulder stock + monopod:

 

(The modification of the bottom of the grip can be reversed anytime).

 

krauklis

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[hamey]

Here it is, in glorious monochrome:

 

WOW Doug, just fantastic, terrific, it's sensational and the IQ is just fabulous.

How long have had the M9M and that APO 50mm f2 it's just out of this world...LOL.

 

Sorry Doug I have to laugh at anything monochrome especially taken with the M9 Monstrosity.

 

Ken.

[philipus]

Interesting coincidence that this thread came up just as I came across a 560 at =43&tx_trproduktgalerie_pi1[page_nr]=0&cHash=95913a2d3c3959c80cb2086bf76266fc"]Photohaus. Yesterday there were two (one priced at 499) and today there's one

 

Can one use the 2x extender on any of the lenses mentioned above?

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Hallo,

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[wildlightphoto]

Interesting coincidence that this thread came up just as I came across a 560 at =43&tx_trproduktgalerie_pi1[page_nr]=0&cHash=95913a2d3c3959c80cb2086bf76266fc"]Photohaus. Yesterday there were two (one priced at 499) and today there's one

 

Can one use the 2x extender on any of the lenses mentioned above?

 

Either the 2x extender or 2x APO extender may be used on any of these lenses but your satisfaction with the combination will depend on your intended use for the photos.

 

With the f/6.8 Telyts, the effective aperture will be f/13.6 and they will be difficult to focus. From my experience with the 1.4x APO-Extender-R and 560mm f/6.8 Telyt, I'd say it's probably not worth the effort unless all you want is web-sized images to show your friends. Not only is the combination difficult to focus and difficult to keep steady enough for sharp photos, the subject will be very difficult to find in the viewfinder because of the very narrow angle of view, and the optical quality of the combination is OK but not what I expect from the 560 by itself. Pretty much the same story for the 350mm Telyt.