roguewave Posted August 11, 2009 Share #1 Posted August 11, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Toning is something that still eludes me and from what I see on the Forum, there's scarcely a handful that seem to have mastered the art. Would like to start some thread or posts that demonstrate various techniques / methodologies that would include some fundamental steps with an accompanying explanation of why & possible alternatives. I'm not trying to get anyone to reveal the family jewels, just thought we could share some best practices and build a body of knowledge on which individuals can build tool sets with. I’m not that hip on the world of presets & software that might address these issues, so those that are, maybe they can add to the knowledgebase, if they wish. The Forum is rich with people that have a diverse set of talents and one of it's strengths is that as a community it buoys those with a sincere interest in developing their craft. It's in that spirit that I wrote this post. As always, I'm grateful for any help I can get. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Hi roguewave, Take a look here Toning - an invitation to give a master class. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jamie Roberts Posted August 12, 2009 Share #2 Posted August 12, 2009 What kind of toning are you talking about, precisely? Duo / quad etc... toning? Tinting? In digital? You're not talking about an analog process...right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguewave Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted August 12, 2009 What kind of toning are you talking about, precisely? Duo / quad etc... toning? Tinting? In digital? You're not talking about an analog process...right? Correct, Jaime. I mean the various alternatives & methods in Photoshop & other image processing packages. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted August 12, 2009 Share #4 Posted August 12, 2009 Toning is really a personal thing. I use Niks Silver Efex Pro to do B&W conversions and it has a wide selection of preset toning and you can adjust from one of the presets or create your own to your liking. Here are 4 images. First is the original, second is the B&W I created from the original, third and forth is that same B&W image reopened twice with SEP and 2 differnt tonings applied. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! First is IMHO a ho hum shot but when converted to B&W with some other adjustments applied it turn out to be a OK image. The toning isn't something I normally do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! First is IMHO a ho hum shot but when converted to B&W with some other adjustments applied it turn out to be a OK image. The toning isn't something I normally do. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/93206-toning-an-invitation-to-give-a-master-class/?do=findComment&comment=991242'>More sharing options...
Marquinius Posted August 12, 2009 Share #5 Posted August 12, 2009 Ben, Good thread! I will have to think about it, but surely will get back. Very interested in what other people have to show on this subject. An illusive subject indeed! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 12, 2009 Share #6 Posted August 12, 2009 (edited) I use the free TLR B&W toning set you can find here... Digital Darkroom @ The Light's Right Studio The full list of actions - not just toning - is here... Digital Darkroom @ The Light's Right Studio Web Site The tone is applied in a new adjustment layer, so it's non-destructive to the original. There is also a set of pre-sets for ACR available on the site. I like the platinum toning action, but some of the others are good too. Here's an example of the same shot, first, a simple de-saturation to give a reference point, then the platinum, then the burgundy gold, and finally one of the sepia action... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited August 12, 2009 by stunsworth Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/93206-toning-an-invitation-to-give-a-master-class/?do=findComment&comment=991465'>More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted August 12, 2009 Share #7 Posted August 12, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ben, I consider myself no master at toning, but this book has about 16 excellent pages on how to create toned images with a monochrome image. My favorite technique creates two different selections using "Color Range", one for the Highlights and the other for the Shadows and then uses a "Hue/Saturation" Adjustment Layer to create a custom tone for each. It would probably be pretty easy to set up your own action. I actually have the previous version of the book. Amazon.com: Black and White in Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom: A complete integrated workflow solution for creating stunning monochromatic images in Photoshop CS4, Photoshop Lightroom, and beyond (9780240521596): Leslie Alsheimer, Bryan O'Neil Hughes: B I would suggest you walk into a Barnes or Borders, pick out the book and browse it for free in their coffee-shop to see if it's right for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwolf Posted August 12, 2009 Share #8 Posted August 12, 2009 When I tone, I like a light effect, just for a little warmth. I used to use Lightroom's split toning function, with hue 50 to 65, low saturation, and balanced to tone highlights and leave blacks black. Now I mostly use Silver Efex Pro, and find its light copper and coffee effects just right. I have tried replicating them in LR, but cannot do so consistently. Silver Efex also does a better job of BW conversion than I am usually able to achieve. I once felt that I should be able to achieve in the native software whatever plug-in companies do in their products. Now I imagine a band of Nik experts dedicated to the full-time pursuit of perfect BW conversion and toning. That's not something I can or want to do. Personally, I'm grateful for their efforts. John Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/93206-toning-an-invitation-to-give-a-master-class/?do=findComment&comment=992187'>More sharing options...
roguewave Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted August 13, 2009 Ben,I consider myself no master at toning, but this book has about 16 excellent pages on how to create toned images with a monochrome image. My favorite technique creates two different selections using "Color Range", one for the Highlights and the other for the Shadows and then uses a "Hue/Saturation" Adjustment Layer to create a custom tone for each. It would probably be pretty easy to set up your own action. I actually have the previous version of the book. Amazon.com: Black and White in Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom: A complete integrated workflow solution for creating stunning monochromatic images in Photoshop CS4, Photoshop Lightroom, and beyond (9780240521596): Leslie Alsheimer, Bryan O'Neil Hughes: B I would suggest you walk into a Barnes or Borders, pick out the book and browse it for free in their coffee-shop to see if it's right for you. Thanks William, I ordered the book today. I have tried several methods described in a variety of good PS/LR books, but can't find the right look as yet. I'm curious about the Nik Software, but I don't know that I want to do my processing in LR, as I still am PC based, primarily. I guess one does the PP in PS, then reimports into LR & then uses their presets. Is that correct? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted August 13, 2009 Share #10 Posted August 13, 2009 Thanks William, I ordered the book today. I have tried several methods described in a variety of good PS/LR books, but can't find the right look as yet. I'm curious about the Nik Software, but I don't know that I want to do my processing in LR, as I still am PC based, primarily. I guess one does the PP in PS, then reimports into LR & then uses their presets. Is that correct? Actually, possibly a little different in theory depending on the persons comfort level. I ordered Silver Efex and Color Efex for PS. A short while later I got an e-mail that I could download the LR versions for free (which was a nice surprise) so I did. whereas my typical workflow was to do the Nik effects in PS, lately I have been using the LR versions. The only difference is the two versions of tthe image are not on two separate layers. But the nice surprise I found was that for the new Efex version in LR (after you hit OK), all the Develop sliders are zeroed out again or at their median level and I can start experimenting with the new image by adding or subtracting clarity, adding or subtracting vibrance.....etc. That's what I did with my recent series "Bar Girls of Ka-bukicho". Now if I suddenly want to blend in the Efex version with the original version, I import both into PS (right click each...Edit In...). Then I take the move tool and while holding the shift key move the efex version over the original which then will be mounted on one and other pixel for pixel and also give me two different layers. Then you can reduce the opacity of the Efex over the original or change blending modes,....etc. It seems to give me new levels of experimentation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted August 13, 2009 Share #11 Posted August 13, 2009 Thanks William, I ordered the book today. I have tried several methods described in a variety of good PS/LR books, but can't find the right look as yet. I'm curious about the Nik Software, but I don't know that I want to do my processing in LR, as I still am PC based, primarily. I guess one does the PP in PS, then reimports into LR & then uses their presets. Is that correct? Niks software works in both PS CS3/4 (and even 2) and Lightroom. If you buy, or have bought, the PS version you can get the LR version free of charge. At least that's the way it worked for me. I had bought the PS version and when NIK came out with the LR version they sent me a email saying I could download it. Not sure about the other way around. Now if you bought the Aperture version I doubt they include a PS or LR version. As for processing with NIK Silver Efex Pro I do all that inside PS, even though I have and installed the LR version. The only thing I don't care for with this plugin/add-on is it originally creates a separate layer for the B&W convertion but once you click OK inside SEP you can not go back and RE-Edit that layer in SEP. You can again create another layer on top of the finished B&W convertion layer byt starting SEP again and use the neutral preset and then make changes to it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tollie Posted August 14, 2009 Share #12 Posted August 14, 2009 I have gone all around the bush with toning... from heavy to light to n one and back to very light. I have used LR and now for monochrome Silver effect's toning... Can you express in words or by an example the kind of effect you are interested in achieving? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Pope Posted August 14, 2009 Share #13 Posted August 14, 2009 Like you I want to learn more about digital toning. I use Alien Skin for processing some of my B&W files. Whilst doing some research into different papers, I came across this document on the Ilford website http://www.ilford.com/en/pdf/prods/galerie/gold/Gold%20Creative%20Tips_en.pdf It describes how to tone B&W images in photoshop by adding an overlay layer which has been coloured with the color picker tool. It seems to work quite well. Hope it's useful. @Steve - thanks for the link to those actions - I'll be having a peek at those. Cheers Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdb Posted August 15, 2009 Share #14 Posted August 15, 2009 I too use Nik Silver. Although the presets are numerous, I find them too extreme. The custom controls allow for very subtle, fine adjustments. It is quite easy to overdo toning. I prefer a subtle,warm feel for portraits. I currently use Nik Silver with Aperture. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/93206-toning-an-invitation-to-give-a-master-class/?do=findComment&comment=994688'>More sharing options...
thompsonkirk Posted August 15, 2009 Share #15 Posted August 15, 2009 I do more color than BW, so like Ben I hope to learn a lot here. So far, however, the posted examples look 'over-toned' on my monitor. Has anyone tried to emulate the beautiful tone of 1970s-80s Portriga Rapid 111 paper when selenium toned - not for major color change but just the diluted version that served for archival preservation? IMO that's the 'gold standard' of image tone & is what I'd like to be able to come up with - specially in a print, not just in a Web post. I believe Harman's Glossy Warmtone baryta paper would be a properly-colored paper base to start with. Kirk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckchen72 Posted August 16, 2009 Share #16 Posted August 16, 2009 Thanks for the toning advice, Quick question if anybody is familiar with the epson 3800. I know you can tone straight out of the printer with advanced b/w mode, but if you tone it before hand does that mean you have to print it as a color image? Thanks! Calvin Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 16, 2009 Share #17 Posted August 16, 2009 Calvin, yes you need to print in colour mode. If you print in ABW the driver will throw away the colour information. Regarding the strengths of the toning that Kirk mentioned earlier. The actions I gave a link to all add the toning in an adjustment layer. So it you want to reduce the visible effect of the default toning, first convert the colour image to b&w, then run the appropriate toning action over that image. You can then use the opacity slider on the toning adjustment layer to reduce the overall toning effect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Pope Posted August 16, 2009 Share #18 Posted August 16, 2009 Thanks for the toning advice, Quick question if anybody is familiar with the epson 3800. I know you can tone straight out of the printer with advanced b/w mode, but if you tone it before hand does that mean you have to print it as a color image? Thanks! Calvin I have the 3800 and have never used the advanced b&w mode. I did play around with it on my 2400 and I assume its the same software. Yes you do need to print an image that's been toned beforehand as a colour image. The disadvantages of using the advanced b&w mode in my view are that you don't get a very good idea of how the image will look until it has printed, wheras if you process it beforehand, you get a pretty good idea of the final look of the image, assuming your monitor is calibrated. Secondly, if you like to post images on websites, then you need to create a toned version beforehand. Though I guess you could scan the finished print if you wanted, but that seems a bit pointless to me. Cheers Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 16, 2009 Share #19 Posted August 16, 2009 I have the 3800 and have never used the advanced b&w mode. I did play around with it on my 2400 and I assume its the same software.Yes you do need to print an image that's been toned beforehand as a colour image. Mark, since you mention the 2400, are you thinking of the grey balancer that came as an external piece of software... Making Beer The advanced b&w mode if part of the standard driver in the 3800, and in my experience produces superb b&w prints. I should add that I only ever use it with images that I've already converted to b&w, and the prints match the screen quite well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Pope Posted August 16, 2009 Share #20 Posted August 16, 2009 Mark, since you mention the 2400, are you thinking of the grey balancer that came as an external piece of software... Steve, IIRC it was part of the printer driver. There was a sort of colour wheel that you could use to 'tone the prints' The idea was I think to go straight from a colour original to B&W. I only played with it on a couple of occasions and it was some time ago, so I could well be wrong. This Pope is in no way infallible Cheers Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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