Guest BigSplash Posted June 25, 2009 Share #1 Posted June 25, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Although I plan to shoot mostly in digital I also want to occassionally use film, maybe for nostalgic reasons, maybe for the arty feel it can provide. Black & White is a joy to watch prints materialise in the developing dish.........compare that to PhotoShop! I want my grand kids to see this, and enjoy the experience while learning. Kodachrome announcement this week, reductions in what was available some years ago at Agfa, Fuji, and Ilford is concerning. The demise of Leica "R" system, The continued questioning about M7 future production (currently Leica say they will support it..as long as demand exists!?) lead me to ask the following questions: 1) What colour film options are still available to buy. in 2009 and 2010? 2) Is processing generally available or is it only with a specialist lab? 3) Price to buy and develop a 36 exposure transparency colour film roughly I believe the above questions will determine whether or not film will be still alive in say 5 years. If the film industry decides to cut back production and provide a tailored film based product / service to professionals and quality conscious amateurs ....then the Kodachrome announcement this week could potentially actually be very good news. I personally never used the local walk in supermarket processing facility anyway as the quality was very variable and usually poor. The fact that Kodak sees nearly all photos being made digitally suggests a vibrant consumer snapshot market that has gone digital. That said I read that many pros are starting to use black and white film again, and sales have year to year increased albeit from a lower base ... Currently vinyl records, and the high end record players that play them are experiencing significant growth. My hope is that similarly we can expect a resurgence of film but it will be a different product / service offer to the high volume "low cost consumer snapshot volume market" that once was. Comments? How do people expect things to change, and what would they like to see going forward to help them enjoy their Leica M7 new purchase? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Hi Guest BigSplash, Take a look here Kodachrome, Ilford, Agfa: Leica & the Future?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
I.H.G. Posted June 25, 2009 Share #2 Posted June 25, 2009 With people like you, who "occasionally" use film, nothing will change. If more and more will return to film that will be an incentive for the industry to produce more film material for competitive prices too. Film itself will be available for a long time , for those who want to take real photos - and who can afford it then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBA Posted June 25, 2009 Share #3 Posted June 25, 2009 I shoot exclusively film and as long as Kodachrome is still available and being processed, exclusively Kodachrome at the rate of some two-dozen rolls per month. Other than film scanning technology, digital photographic technology is basically irrelevant to me, particularly with Leica's announcement that there will be no R10. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted June 25, 2009 Share #4 Posted June 25, 2009 The future? The future is digital. After half a century with film, I simply cannot consider a future of silver salts, boiled pig hides and polluting chemicals. As for image quality (as distinct from "qualities", which are matters of taste and thus exempt from rational discussion) digital beats film hands down. What I can do with the M8 I couldn't do even with medium format film. So film will go the way of the wet plate negative. The old man who came out of the darkroom Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 25, 2009 Share #5 Posted June 25, 2009 So film will go the way of the wet plate negative. Not in our life times... There are people who still use wet plates, so there's a while to go yet. This is another "the sky is falling" threads. Of course film is going to be around in 5 years time. Ilford are in pretty good shape at the moment, from what I can see, so they shouldn't be included in a list that includes Kodachrome and Agfa I am wondering whether Frank actually leaves his front door very often, or maybe even lives in a cave . 2 minutes on the internet will tell him what films are available, how much they cost to process and who can do them professionally. I am actually trying very hard to work out what his point is, to be honest. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyp Posted June 25, 2009 Share #6 Posted June 25, 2009 Digital is not without it's pitfalls, environmentally. Lots of bad stuff in our computers, etc that ends up in dumping grounds. And I'm sure the manufacturing of the equipment is not without some hazards as well. I'm not saying it's as bad as film chemicals, just saying everything has a price. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 25, 2009 Share #7 Posted June 25, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1) What colour film options are still available to buy. in 2009 and 2010? 2) Is processing generally available or is it only with a specialist lab? 3) Price to buy and develop a 36 exposure transparency colour film roughly 1) go to the websites of the various film manufacturers such as Ilford, Kodak, Fuji and look for yourself. There are plently of options out there for us film users. 2) Yes generally available (Boots, Jessops, Snappy Snaps high st processors in the UK or selected pro labs and mail order services or DIY). 3) Film 99p to £5 for neg film say and D&P with CD (low res) for £10 approx from a high st lab, a couple of quid for DIY or whatever you want to spend for pro services (drum scanning, hand printing etc). Next. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 25, 2009 Share #8 Posted June 25, 2009 The future? The future is digital. After half a century with film, I simply cannot consider a future of silver salts, boiled pig hides and polluting chemicals. As for image quality (as distinct from "qualities", which are matters of taste and thus exempt from rational discussion) digital beats film hands down. What I can do with the M8 I couldn't do even with medium format film. So film will go the way of the wet plate negative. The old man who came out of the darkroom Lars, Do you shoot film at all or have you converted fully do digital? What exactly can you do with your M8 that you 'couldn't' do with MF? Some photographers are still using wet plates, I went to an exhibition recently where the photographer makes his own wet plates and uses a 100 yr old camera - the images were fantastic BTW. Do digicams come supplied with a pair of blinkers and ear plugs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 25, 2009 Share #9 Posted June 25, 2009 1) What colour film options are still available to buy. in 2009 and 2010? 2) Is processing generally available or is it only with a specialist lab? 3) Price to buy and develop a 36 exposure transparency colour film roughly 1) go to the websites of the various film manufacturers such as Ilford, Kodak, Fuji and look for yourself. There are plently of options out there for us film users. 2) Yes generally available (Boots, Jessops, Snappy Snaps high st processors in the UK or selected pro labs and mail order services or DIY). 3) Film 99p to £5 for neg film say and D&P with CD (low res) for £10 approx from a high st lab, a couple of quid for DIY or whatever you want to spend for pro services (drum scanning, hand printing etc). Next. I live in the S.France and we do not have Boots, Snappy Snaps nor Jessops but I agree that I could buy a quantity of film from the internet. What I see is the following: 1 The best film stock used to be sold to professionals and were kept in fridges at the shop and at the pros studio.........I get the impression that cold film is not sold anymore, anywhere and maybe it is not needed anyway? That said I did used to buy my film cold. 2 Where would I get the stuff processed to a high quality level? My feeling is that the high street retail option did not from past experience give me the quality I wanted (negs were too often supplied scratched, colour was never as I expected it to be etc. In France the major outlet for cameras etc is FNAAC and when I last went to their Nice and Cannes stores I was horrified to see a choice of just two or three colour slide and print films none of which were pro grade. Black and white was FP4 Ilford and that was it. 3 If I use my M8 I cut the price of film to zero, and do not have a processing problem and . I see the results immediately . If I play with the ISO setting I get to choose the grainy effect (some call it noise) so apart from the thrill of developing Black & White why bother with film I ask myself. Yet clearly I am missing something as so many people on this Forum are fanatical about film. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 25, 2009 Share #10 Posted June 25, 2009 Frank, buy one of the French photography magazines. You'll see ads for all the services you need. I've just brought up the web page of a French supplier of film that has all the film you're likely to need. If I can do it so can you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hiles Posted June 25, 2009 Share #11 Posted June 25, 2009 particularly with Leica's announcement that there will be no R10. I may have been looking the other way, or blinked. When was this announced? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 25, 2009 Share #12 Posted June 25, 2009 Keep up at the back Michael http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/89591-summary-q-session-stefan-daniel-during.html http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/89662-death-r-how-do-you-really.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 25, 2009 Share #13 Posted June 25, 2009 What I see is the following: 1 The best film stock used to be sold to professionals and were kept in fridges at the shop and at the pros studio.........I get the impression that cold film is not sold anymore, anywhere and maybe it is not needed anyway? That said I did used to buy my film cold. I buy my film from places that keep the film in the fridge (sometimes), but by the time I get it home, it's warmed up. Then it goes in the freezer. But, it doesn't go off like Camembert does... Don't worry about it. If you buy over the 'net, it will have been stored properly at the vendor's place. What I see is the following: 2 Where would I get the stuff processed to a high quality level? My feeling is that the high street retail option did not from past experience give me the quality I wanted (negs were too often supplied scratched, colour was never as I expected it to be etc. . Have a look in Les Pages Jaune... that's what I do. That's what most people do. What I see is the following: 3 If I use my M8 I cut the price of film to zero, and do not have a processing problem and . I see the results immediately . If I play with the ISO setting I get to choose the grainy effect (some call it noise) so apart from the thrill of developing Black & White why bother with film I ask myself. Yet clearly I am missing something as so many people on this Forum are fanatical about film. You are missing everything. If you can't tell the difference between a noisy M8 file, and an image from real film, then there's not much that anyone can say to you. There are literally dozens of different films available - all with their own characteristics. That's one of the reasons why people still use it. Lots of people love using film. I'm one of them. Since I sold my DMR, I've shot nothing else. I was waiting for an R10, but now will take my money elsewhere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman Villain Posted June 25, 2009 Share #14 Posted June 25, 2009 Maybe the death of Kodachrome has more to with competition against other films than competition with digital. I remember having conversations 15-20 years ago about the future of Kodachrome... and back then... people were convinced that the popularity of Fuji transparency films was more threatening to Kodachrome than the inevitable digital camera revolution. Kodachrome represented a specific era in film's history...but Kodachrome cannot lay claim to representing the entire film era. Kodachrome is simply being replaced by other films that are considered by the current generation to be better representations of the present film era. The future of film vs digital? Film is going to remain popular with a small, highly devoted and sophisticated audience. Expert film handling, processing, printing....might become something akin to occult hidden knowledge....but will still be around Film ain't going nowhere LOL. Mainstream acceptance doesn't usually result in demand for high quality, IN general, most products actually become better if they are designed to cater to a highly specialized niche audience as opposed to a clumsy illiterate mainstream audience. Film quality should only improve now that it's shaken off the burden of pleasing common housewives. Film processing? That might have a lot to do with politics....as some people have pointed out there are environmental concerns....and the current business climate is not friendly to small business people. Small entrepreneurs carry the greatest hope of fulfilling the need for film processing in smaller towns . It's possible that there could be lots of room for small processing enterprises to be started in tiny shops (and maybe residential homes) to support film communities outside of major metropolitan areas....but this could only happen if governments are forced to take a smaller role in regulation of business and the economy. Overall, I'm very optimistic...I think that within a decade we might just see a new golden age for film. Who knows? Time will tell... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 25, 2009 Share #15 Posted June 25, 2009 3 If I use my M8 I cut the price of film to zero, and do not have a processing problem and . I see the results immediately . If I play with the ISO setting I get to choose the grainy effect (some call it noise) so apart from the thrill of developing Black & White why bother with film I ask myself. Yet clearly I am missing something as so many people on this Forum are fanatical about film. From your comments above, clearly you should only use your M8. Don't even worry yourself about film photography or 'wet' printing. How's the yacht? Been anywhere nice on it lately? How many crew do you have (including the cooks?). Just interested that's all. Be lovely to see a photo of her taken with your new M8. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted June 25, 2009 Share #16 Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) 1) What colour film options are still available to buy. in 2009 and 2010? 2) Is processing generally available or is it only with a specialist lab? 3) Price to buy and develop a 36 exposure transparency colour film roughly 1)all the present ones (Kodachrome doesn't count as it is a slide film)2)generally available 3)about 5 euro - maybe 10 Happy now? Edited June 25, 2009 by SJP Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted June 25, 2009 Share #17 Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) Film will be around as long as there is a market. There's this forum, for starters. My local lab vows to be "the last man standing" as far as film processing is concerned. I still find slides and scans onto CD are very satisfying -- there is still uncertainty on the long-term archival storage stability of digital (and it is a concern not just for photogs but for large organizations, too). There is a string of companies in all fields no longer in business -- but that doesn't mean the nature of the business is defunct. Argus, Minolta, Praktika -- but cameras are still being made. Lagonda, Talbot, GM --- but cars are still being made. Edited June 25, 2009 by NZDavid Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted June 25, 2009 Share #18 Posted June 25, 2009 The future? The future is digital. False, the future is both film and digital. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 25, 2009 Share #19 Posted June 25, 2009 From your comments above, clearly you should only use your M8. Don't even worry yourself about film photography or 'wet' printing. How's the yacht? Been anywhere nice on it lately? How many crew do you have (including the cooks?). Just interested that's all. Be lovely to see a photo of her taken with your new M8. Thanks for the interest and as always I value your advice. I actually went to St Tropez this last weekend thru to Wednesday.......I went with a business colleague and had no crew. I cooked breakfast and lunch, and we hammered the credit cards at night in both St Tropez and Cannes . I actually do not have a M8 photo of the yacht but could find some M6 analogue photos that I can send you privately if there is true interest. You will also be glad to know that my wife returned today from UK after looking after the grandchild. You are probably correct about M8 photography for myself being the future. Am I perhaps missing something however? You give me the impression that I am and that is worrying me. Please can you articulate specifically what it is that I have not discovered with film that I should learn and enjoy during the next few years while it remains available (inclusive of processing). Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 25, 2009 Share #20 Posted June 25, 2009 What did you make photographs with before you shot with digital cameras, Frank? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.