summicron 35 - 1963 - 8 lenses

[dominique]

Hello,

I have the opportunity to buy a chromed summicron 35 - 1963 - 8 lenses for 1.100 € mint, with original buble box and paper box. Is this a correct price?
Is this lens as good as the summicron 35 - 7 lenses (the version before the ASPH one).
What I am sure off, is that this lens is the nicest 35mm summicron ever made, with its lock on the all metallic focusing tab...
Many thanks in advance for your advice.

[cbretteville]

If you're sure it's the best what is stopping you? The optical characteristics are described in Erwin Puts' book available for download here:

http://www.imx.nl/photosite/comments/paypal.html

As for the price, there is a black one for sale on eBay for $3.650 by Kevin Camera. That price seems over the top. In the end only you can decide if it is worth the money the seller is asking. If it is what you want, go for it!

- Carl

[xray]

I owned the 1st version for a few years after owning the 1st generation pre asph summilux for twnety plus years. I currently own the 4th generation. While the summilux 1st generation is a good lens it's not as good in the flare department as the 1st generation summicron. That said the 1st generation falls quite short of the 4th genration in most respects. The 1st version is less than stellar wide open suffering from considerable light falloff and slightly soft overall and noticably soft at the edges. It's all relative to ones expectations and needs as to what is best but for the money the 1st version is way over priced. Honestly I do not know what the attraction is for this lens other than for collectors. I've used Leica M profesionally for thirty eight years and the 1st version is one of my least favorite of all Leitz lenses. I also have a new CV 35 1.2 Nokton that i would much rather have than the 1st V and would take it over my 4th V if i could only own one 35mm. Save some money and find a clean 4th V or CV lens.

[xray]

I know it's tough to really evaluate anything from a monitor but here's an example of th 8 element 1st V. The subject had alot of black in it and it was starting to rain. The light was fading quickly and the shot was made at 1/60 and f2 on delta 100. In the neg the corners are quite soft but the center is good but not great.

[xray]

Unfortunately the darker values seems to have gotten darker in the upload. Don't know how this can happen but it did.

[pilot]

I have the mk 1 Summicron 35. While it is a nice lens, it's not nearly as good as my mk2 35mm Elmarit-R. I mounted them both on the M4 and took several pics on Kodachrome 25, and the Elmarit-R was a clear winner. Not surprising as the Elmarit-R came several years later.

Bryan

[doubice]

Dominique,

While I agree that the first generation Summicron has the best build quality of all the 35mm Summicrons, you'd be better off with the generation 4 version. These offer the best value if you do not want to go for the ASPH. You will be paying a collector's premium for the first version, specially if in original box. Needless to say, the premium will not be reflected in its performance...

The generation 4 was available as 'Made in Canada' initially, later models were made in Germany. Both are identical - eBay pricing is between US$800 to US$1000. I use the German gen. 4 version and am very happy with its performance as well as the build quality.

All the best,

Jan

[tobey bilek]

Collectors have driven up the price beyond it`s picture taking value.

Get a 35 2.0 ASPH or 35 2.0 V4.

If you like its look in pics, just get a 3.5 Summaron.

[MP3]

In terms of image quality, I would rather the Lux Asph at slight higher than Euro 1,200, especially if you take lots of wide open available light shots. It's a modern classic, simply superb.

For a better price performance ratio, a mint small german made IV should be a real great all rounder, though without the super sharpness wide open, it is unrivalled from f4 onwards.

Collector's concern is another issue...

Cheers
Matthew

[dominique]

Many thanks to all for your info.
I eventually bought the summicron V1 8 Lenses and I found the pictures taken with it very nice, but maybe not as sharp as with the summilux aspherical 35 mm or the Vario-Elmar 35-70 or summicron R 35 on my R8. Color rendition is about the same as with the more modern lenses. To me the micro contrast is not as detailed as with the modern lenses. But for some pictures this may be good, as not everybody has the skin of a young lady of 20 years old. The 35 mm 8L softens the pictures a bit, fut from F4, it is difficult to show the diffrences with the more modern lenses (on slide and colour film).
The very good point of this lens is its built quality, which is the best of all.
This is also the most compact 35 mm lens I know of. the helicoid is micrometric and the focusing tab has a lock - that can be used favourably when you want to take pictures from planes or moving cars ...
Have fun with your Leicas.

[bindrar]

How can you go wrong with anything made in 1963?



Yours

Ravi

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by dominique

Hello,

I have the opportunity to buy a chromed summicron 35 - 1963 - 8 lenses for 1.100 € mint, with original buble box and paper box. Is this a correct price?
Is this lens as good as the summicron 35 - 7 lenses (the version before the ASPH one).
What I am sure off, is that this lens is the nicest 35mm summicron ever made, with its lock on the all metallic focusing tab...
Many thanks in advance for your advice.

I thinke price/quality ratio is high compared to newest lenses: the 8 lenses is mainly a collectible (I have teh Wetzlar version); but, I completely agree with you, is definitely NICE !

[engelfangen]

Originally Posted by luigi bertolotti

I thinke price/quality ratio is high compared to newest lenses: the 8 lenses is mainly a collectible (I have teh Wetzlar version); but, I completely agree with you, is definitely NICE !

Hello!
Can anyone tell me what is a normal price for a 8-elements Wetzlar Summicron for the m3 from 1960 in the original paper box in mint- condition?
best regards Marc

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by engelfangen

Hello!
Can anyone tell me what is a normal price for a 8-elements Wetzlar Summicron for the m3 from 1960 in the original paper box in mint- condition?
best regards Marc

remember McKeown 1st law "the price of a collectible item is entirely dipendent on the mood of the seller and the buyer at a date moment.." (this is the sense, memory does not recall me the exact spelling...). Anyway, over 1000 Euros if very good, with box ecc..., I am not a dealer nor a seller, but would say 1200-1300 are not waste money if You are a collector... the Wetzlar is rather scarce...not to speak of the screw mount version, that can easily double the price IF ORIGINAL: they say is worth to machine a SM from a BM...but aware of serial numbers... and minimum focus that HAS to be 1 meter...seems that the Cron 35SM has been produced in about 500 items, and this is a small number; the SM BLACK are super rare items: prices to be determined at Shoteby or so...

[meatboy]

Where does the 35mm type 3 (1971) summicron sit with all this? Is it collectible? How does it perform compared to a current cron ASPH?

It seems collectors make it worth us going to the cron ASPH if you just want a Leica 35mm and are not too fussed about bokeh etc.

Tim

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by meatboy

Where does the 35mm type 3 (1971) summicron sit with all this? Is it collectible? How does it perform compared to a current cron ASPH?

It seems collectors make it worth us going to the cron ASPH if you just want a Leica 35mm and are not too fussed about bokeh etc.

Tim

Tim, collecting Leicas and using Leicas are different things, even if I think most collectors love to use at least part of their gear: it is one of the most fascinatings element about Leitz collecting the fact that you have no problem to use with anyway good results, say, a rather rare lens of 1931 on a M7 body of 2006 (3/4 of a century.... I have an Hektor 7,3 cm f 1,9 from 1931: M7 has the 75 mm frame...where is the problem?). But, I say, collecting and using is different : want quality up to date? Take the current lenses, no doubt; collecting/using is a matter of sentiment: I hate the idea to discard, some day, the regular usage of my Summilux 35 Chrome dated 1960... I love this lens...but am not so stupid to imagine that a modern SLux asph cannot perform better... But, as I said, old lenses are ALWAYS good and think that we all praise Leica to have maintained this specific kind of continuity throughout more than 75 Years.

[engelfangen]

Originally Posted by luigi bertolotti

I am not a dealer nor a seller, but would say 1200-1300 are not waste money if You are a collector... the Wetzlar is rather scarce.

If a collector is interested, he can sent me a mail ;-)
all the best Marc

[dkpeterborough]

MW Classic have a 35mm Mk 1 Summicron with M3 specs for sale .. made in Wetzlar ... listed new in 27th Oct and seems reasonably priced at £399 ... and is boxed

dunk

[leitz_not_leica]

The M3 goggled version always goes for less than the M2 version, the lenses being identical. I bought mine for $400CDN about 15 years ago before they became collectible. It's my favorite lens, having bought and sold a ASPH 'lux, too big and too "sterile".

[doubice]

Originally Posted by leitz_not_leica

The M3 goggled version always goes for less than the M2 version, the lenses being identical. I bought mine for $400CDN about 15 years ago before they became collectible. It's my favorite lens, having bought and sold a ASPH 'lux, too big and too "sterile".

I have also used the goggled 35mm Summicron on an M4. The advantage is that the lens will key in the 50mm frame (the goggle’s 0.7 magnification turns that into 35mm) and you’ll have plenty of surrounding area in the finder to help with composition.

The slight disadvantage of using the goggled lens on a 0.72 magnification finder is that it turns the finder into a 0.5 one - rather squinty and also reduces the contrast slightly. A few users suggested removing the goggles - this will affect focusing accuracy at any distance below infinity, even the distance scale will not be accurate.

This is due to the focusing cam being cut differently to allow for closer focusing (0.7m) on the M3 and the fact that the goggles change the optical properties of the camera’s finder.

The combination however, looks great on any Leica!

Best,

Jan