Buy the M-Monochrom, or Wait for the M10?

[Guest malland]

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Thanks to the generosity of Jono Slack in making some of his M-Monochom DNG files available, many of us have a good idea of what this camera's files are like — and I like them. The files are robust and thanks to the suggestions of fotografx (Marc) we got a head start on how to process them, with reduction of the Exposure slider combined with bold moves using the LR4 ("true") Black slider to get the blacks and contrast that many of us want, while lifting the shadow tones without losing the blacks.

 

While not hung up on resolution, I am generally interested in being able to make expressive prints, often with high contrast, while maintaining good gradation in the mid tones. This, I find is easier to accomplish with the M-Monohrom than with any other digital camera with which I've done B&W, including the Ricoh GXR M-Module, the M8 and the M9. Indeed, I find it easier with the M-Monochrm to achieve a wide range of different looks that I like, from high to lower contrast, from high key to low key. In this context, I am particularly impressed by Leica's gutsy move a supporting the efforts of Jacob Aue Sobol because while, as some people have suggested, his photography may not readily bring out the strengths of this camera in terms of resolution and medium format-type gradation, it shows me the wide range of look that can be accomplished with the M-Monochrom, particularly in this case in the high contrast, expressive direction that I like.

 

In some of the discussions of the M-Monochrom files, I was concerned about losing the flexibility of converting color DNG files, which allows the use of "software" filters, and thereby being limited by this camera's spectral response — a line of thinking that has been eloquently expounded by Jamie Roberts. However, after seeing the broad range of tones that can be produced both through global adjustments and by dodging and burning, I concluded that there is enough flexibility in how one can process the M-Monichrom files that this would not be an issue for me. Also, at the background of all this is the high-ISO performance, which again, also presents good flexibility in processing.

 

On the basis of the foregoing I am almost ready to buy the M-Monochrom, if I can manage to get a camera (through preorder) either the first or last week of July, which are the dates when I expect to be for in Paris for a couple of days on both legs of my trip. The remaining factor that is still holding me up is the possibility of the M10; that is, what will the M10 be like?

 

If the M10 is an EVF camera without an optical rangefinder, then I would definitely buy the M-Monochrom. simply because I prefer to view the scene through an optical viewfinder rather than through a TV screen, which is what an EVF is. At first I thought that any camera that is called an "M camera" (M10 in this case) must have a rangefinder because the "M" in the M-camera appellation stands for Messsucher, which means rangefinder in German. But the word rangefinder can equally well refer to an optical or an electronic viewfinder.

 

Now if the M10, and assuming that this is the camera that will be presented at Photokina, has an optical rangefinder, then the decision to buy an M-Monochrom becomes more difficult now. In his review posted today comparing the M-Monoxchrom with the Nikon D800E, Ming Thein occludes that essentially a CMOS sensor camera, the D800E, can produces B&W that is very close to what the M-Monochrom produces, although there are some indications in his review that there may be a (very) slight preference to the look that the M-Monochrom renders.

 

The significance of this, for me, is that an M10, with a CMOS sensor of the latest vintage, with substantially higher pixel count and with a Bayer filter, may produce B&W that is very close, or perhaps as good, as the M-Monochrom. In that case, I would rather wait for the M10 because I would prefer not to carry two cameras to be able to do both colour and B&W — and as I travel frequently to three continents with only carryon luggage, I would only take one camera body with me. Hey, on the other hand there is always the possibility that I could end up liking the M-Monochrom so much that I would give up on colour.

 

Any thoughts on all this?

 

—Mitch/Pak Nam Pran

Pak Nam Pran

[wattsy]

If you think you might want the M10 then why not wait until after Photokina before making a decision? It's not as if the M Monochrom is going away any time soon and Photokina is only a few months away. In the meantime we can still plod along with the gear that was working perfectly fine before May 10th.

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[Guest malland]

Ian, of course; but "Time's winged chariot [is] hurrying near" and no matter how good I think the Ricoh GXR M-Module is I' am getting tired shooting with the EVF. On a really small camera (GRD4) I like shooting by framing with the LCD, but not with anything larger than that, so I simply look forward to using a Leica-M again.

 

—Mitch/Pak Nam Pran

Scratching the Surface©

[M9reno]

Presumably an M10 would not produce raw B&W files: you would be working with jpg of B&W as on the M9 now, and in converting to B&W you would have the same data loss through the M10's Bayer filter, even though the assumed higher Megapixel capability in the M10 might land you in the ballpark of the current resolution of the MM. And you would get the colour option on top. I see the dilemma.

 

But this raises the obvious question: should one make purchasing decisons of this cost on the basis of hypotheticals rather than current need?

 

And speaking of need, are you really convinced the M9's resolution, in colour OR B&W falls short of your needs? Frankly, having seen the M9-MM comparison test shots in LFI, I can barely see the difference, and the small difference there might be is insignificant to my personal needs. But that's just me. Besides, I personally prefer the M2 or M3 Monochrom for B&W anyway.

 

In short, if you feel the need is the objectively for you AND the MM meets it, then go for it now.

[Guest malland]

Al, good points. I'm driven by time availability to take pictures. For the last six months or so I've been so busy and traveling so munch that I simply have had very little time to photography. Now, I'm coming into a period of some four months in which I may have a lot of time, hence the idea of getting an M-Monochrome. Some people may recommend getting one and selling it later if I decide that I want an M10; bit simply not into camera trading — I've got a GRD2 and a GRD3 lying around that I have not got around to selling when I recently got a GRD4.

 

—Mitch/Pak Nam Pran

Barrier

Edited May 27, 2012 by malland

[lct]

Digital colored filters are essential for me so M10 or nothing.

[wattsy]

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Ian, of course; but "Time's winged chariot [is] hurrying near" and no matter how good I think the Ricoh GXR M-Module is I' am getting tired shooting with the EVF.

 

I thought you still had an M9, Mitch (hence, why I thought it was worth waiting a little longer).

 

My personal view regarding the MM v. as yet unknown M10 is that the Monochrom is likely to be the better camera for someone who is committed to B&W and digital. Whatever spec the M10 has, the MM will inevitably be simpler and more 'M'.

[Ellie]

Perhaps an argument for the M Monochrom, I've read several reviews that the D800E needs a tripod to take advantage of the high resolution.. is 18MP ideal for hand held photography or where is the limit? Will an eventual high resolution M10 need a tripod to take fully advantage of it?

[Guest malland]

Ian, yes, I've also been thinking about the "M-nesss" of the Monochrom.

 

My M9 was a disaster story: I got the first one in Paris on 14 October of 2009, shot a dozen frames before leaving for Bangkok the next day and, mainly because of jet lag, did not get a chance to look at those frames, but when I did found that the sensor cover glass was cracked — it was that way right out of the store, the first case of this problem, I believe.

 

Solms replaced the sensor and two weeks after I received the M9 back it developed an intermittent processor problem that created a vertical lighter-coloured rectangle on some successive frames. Solms took over three months to deal with this — at first they couldn't reproduce the problem — and returned the camera repaired, but after they had initially stated that they would replace it with a new one. As I lost confidence, I sold the camera, although the buyer was informed of the previous problem.

 

—Mitch/Pak Nam Pran

Scratching the Surface©

[M9reno]

As an afterthought loosely connected to this thread, I wonder if the M10 will be deprived of B&W in-camera jpg capability. Leica's argument would be that raw is always better, and It would guarantee the MM continues to sell.

[jaapv]

Soul-searching - the Monochrome it will be with a full set of 022 and 040 filters- no M10. that would come too expensive, as it would include the cost of a divorce....:roll eyes:

I can’t have my cake and lie on it..

Edited May 27, 2012 by jaapv

[algrove]

Ian, of course; but "Time's winged chariot [is] hurrying near" and no matter how good I think the Ricoh GXR M-Module is I' am getting tired shooting with the EVF. On a really small camera (GRD4) I like shooting by framing with the LCD, but not with anything larger than that, so I simply look forward to using a Leica-M again.

 

—Mitch/Pak Nam Pran

Scratching the Surface©

 

I assume this means that lately you have been shooting with your GXR mostly because you no longer own a digital M camera? But plan on getting one soon?

[AbbeyFoto]

Soul-searching - the Monochrome it will be with a full set of 022 and 040 filters- no M10. that would come too expensive, as it would include the cost of a divorce....:roll eyes:

I can’t have my cake and lie on it..

 

Ah the converted back from the road to Damascus? What filter system Jaap?

 

My tuppence worth on the original question. The M10 will have to place itself in a highly competitive and innovating market without upsetting the M minded users. With the MM and 50AA Leica have shown their are feeling confident enough to push the boundaries. I guess they will do so with the M10 but constrained by wishing M9 users to upgrade. For myself I will wait for the 10.2 (or whatever it's called) so issues are ironed out. The MM has my vote.

[Guest malland]

I assume this means that lately you have been shooting with your GXR mostly because you no longer own a digital M camera? But plan on getting one soon?

I got the GXR M-Module and shot with it for a few months. I think it's an excellent M-mount/APS-C implementation but, while the EVF is serviceable, I don't really like framing with it; and for my M-lenses I would like a full frame camera — with an optical rangefinder. However, in recent months, I've been shooting mainly with the GRD4; but very little because I've been so busy. I think that the GRD4 is a unique camera, the way the Leica-M are. But even though the GRD4 is similar in user interface to the GXR M-Module, there are enough difference that, if I've been using one camera for some months, it takes some "brush up" to switch to the other — a problem that I don't face with a Leica-M because to its utter simplicity.

 

—Mitch/Pak Nam Pran

[johnbuckley]

Mitch - I somehow missed Marc's (fotografx) post-processing suggestions. Would you mind steering me to that thread?

 

Also, you won't get a Monochrom in early July, and odds of getting one in late July, absent your having already committed to a dealer to get one, are probably not great, so it does sound like you may be able to make a decision post-Photokina with far more sense of the choice between Monochrom and M10.

[Guest malland]

John, Marc gives a description in this thread, and and in this other thread he shows the actual settings he used in LR4.

 

—Mitch/Pak Nam Pran

Scratching the Surface©

[pico]

Ian, of course; but "Time's winged chariot [is] hurrying near"[...]

 

That dreadful thought has been circling my mind for the past year, the first year of retirement, and I feel resignation drawing closer. When I contrast the haste of modern technology against my life to-date I see nothing new, pending or promising that I really need. Time is of the essence. Waiting is not an option.

 

Rather than looking ahead to greater digital image quality, I can turn 180 degrees toward the past to the Hasselblad system or Linhof Super Technika, as well as any Leica M film camera, all of which I already have. I am no longer a professional photographer and need absolutely nothing that its future can offer.

 

Yes, I can feel the angst dissolving to become resignation, joy. Film it will be.

.

[Guest malland]

I intentionally didn't make any reference to film to try to avert these futile film vs digital discussion because, although I love film, for me it's not an option. Last December, I picked up in Paris a beautiful balck Hasselblad 903-SWC, with the intention of a partial return to B&W film. It was the first camera I bought for it's beauty as well as it's functional design: through the viewfinder you see the aperture, shutter speed and focus on the lens barrel.

 

I knew that I wouldn't have the time to develop film or to make prints, but intended to have this done by the best darkroom printer in Bangkok — I didn't want to scan and print digitally. When I got from Paris, I learned that this printer had in the meantime been killed in a cat crash. I knew him fairly well and he was one of the nicest people I have know, tragic. The second printer that could have done this disappeared, apparently following a girl friend to Laos. At the same time, I got so busy in my work that I didn't virtually have time for photography at all. My attempted return to film didn't work and I sold the 903-SWC for a slight loss. I won't try another return to film, it simply is not an option for me.

 

—Mitch/Pk Nak Pran

Pak Nam Pran

[Photoskeptic]

Soul-searching - the Monochrome it will be with a full set of 022 and 040 filters- no M10. that would come too expensive, as it would include the cost of a divorce....:roll eyes:

I can’t have my cake and lie on it..

 

My situation exactly jaap. I just went to the drawer where I keep all my old bw stuff to make certain I still have all my filters. Yep, still do!

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[lars_bergquist]

Mitch, Leica will present something quite important at the Photokina – so important that they didn't want the Monochrome to act as a distraction. This is quite clear to me.

 

But that Very Important Thing may not be the M10. I don't think it will be a new S either. The alternative is the new interchangeable-lens EVF camera that is clearly in the offing. And honestly, I think that camera will be the first of a line that will be much more important to Leica's future that any new M. It will be their chance to capture a different, wider market segment.

 

I am planning to upgrade my M9 to a M9-P, getting at last the silver chrome finish that I prefer. And then I will continue to use that camera for possibly as long as I live, whatever Leica produces. Though possibly in tandem with the EVF camera ...

 

The old man from the Kodachrome Age