delander † Posted October 10, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I notice that the M9 has grey shutter blades above and below the central white shutter blade. Also the section on metering in the M9 manual misses out the metering 'iso-ev' diagram shown in the M8 manual. To be frank I always felt that the M8 metering was primitive in execution, highly centre wieghted and it often led to me blowing out highlights. Using auto exposure, which I know some frown upon, I often dialled in -2/3 under exposure. With the intro of the new extra grey shutter blades, the metering sensor must now be measuring light reflected from a much larger area, (but still centre weighted). Some have already noted the tendancy of the M9 to produce darker images than the M8. So perhaps the era of dialling in -2/3ev comp is over. It seems to me that this new arrangement is a significant improvement over the M8. Any comments? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 Hi delander †, Take a look here M9 metering. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mjh Posted October 10, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 10, 2009 With the intro of the new extra grey shutter blades, the metering sensor must now be measuring light reflected from a much larger area, (but still centre weighted). Given the increased image size and the lower reflectivity of the two dark grey shutter shutter blades, the area isn’t that much larger actually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 10, 2009 Share #3 Posted October 10, 2009 Jeff, early film cameras that had metering used a central white spot for metering. It works tike a 'fat spotmeter'. IMHO very accurate for anumber of rtyles of measurement, provided you understood and used it accordingly. The M8, as you know, has the one white blade which sort of simulates the white spot but boes react differently i some situations. Not as accurate as the white spot IMO. The M9 now has a white blade and adjascent grey blade on either side as you observed. It presumable 'widens' the scope of the the reading with dimiished sensitivity on the edges of the metered area. I would call it a 'sft fat spot' method. So far, my experience indicates it to be generally more accurate but broader in scope. Hmmm, that last bit reads like I an oxymoron I suspect, but I hope you understand what I mean. The M9 does expose slightly darker which I find to be a better balance. I don't know if this is due to the changed metering or firmware settings or whatever. It could be both which would not surprise me. Anyway, I find it better so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted October 11, 2009 Share #4 Posted October 11, 2009 I've always preferred the more restictive central spot on the M7. It is much easier to tell exactly what is being metered. So much is averaged with the big edge-to-edge ellipse on the M8, it's hard to meter anything in particular. Good thing you can look at the histogram and shoot again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 11, 2009 Share #5 Posted October 11, 2009 Zeitz, I am inclined to agree about the M6/7 spot as being very good. It simply required understanding how to use it. I have use it in some pretty exreme lighting scenarios with good result. I suspect the M9 will approach, or even surpass that performance, depending on how you use the meter. Like all before it, the M9 meterering will have to be understood to fully exploit it, which I think will not be be difficult from my early handling of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 11, 2009 Share #6 Posted October 11, 2009 I believe Stefan Daniel remarked in the Reichmann video interview that the M9's new shutter blade painting does indeed make it work more like the M6/7's white spot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted October 11, 2009 Share #7 Posted October 11, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) All metering systems require learning. And learning requires understanding. Above all, we must learn to recognise the situations when a straight metering will not work. There will always be situations like these, and their existence cannot be cited as a failure of the system. Every machine has limitations. For instance, I know how far I can go with exposure out of doors in order to keep detail in diffuse highlights. This is not too difficult. A good way to learn is to buy a good hand meter that can measure incident light. It is also an infallible insurance against blown highlights in tricky situations. I do seldom leave home without one. The old man from the Age Before Meters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share #8 Posted October 11, 2009 I believe Stefan Daniel remarked in the Reichmann video interview that the M9's new shutter blade painting does indeed make it work more like the M6/7's white spot. I dont see how, surely the opposite? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted October 11, 2009 Share #9 Posted October 11, 2009 I've used my M8 now much longer than I used my M7. I learned the M7 immediately; the manual even shows you what is metered. I still can't isolate a reading on the M8 because is it seems to be elliptical with no easily associated indications in the finder. I guess I'll find out about the M9 when deliveries catch up with orders. It will help having easier EV compensation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 11, 2009 Share #10 Posted October 11, 2009 Jeff--Check the video if you want. The M8 meter is the strange one. The M9's is designed to work more like that of the "white spot" cameras. See also Michael's comment above. The gray blades extend the sensitivity primarily a bit higher and lower, giving a more center-weighted pattern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted October 11, 2009 Howard, I would have thought that the grey blades increase the area of light that is being measured, thus moving away from the 'spot' type metering. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 12, 2009 Share #12 Posted October 12, 2009 The 'ergonomics' of the various metering spots/stripes is curious. The M6/7 spot, I believe works like a 'fat spot' because (I think) the cell that views it is not focussed, so the edges of its 'vision' is somewhat blurred. Maybe not even sensitive to its shape? The M8 white stripe possibly does not vary in total area much from the M7 spot. The difference is that it can now be sensitive to orientation, but I don't know if that is in fact how it is programmed. The M9 has a grey stripe above, and another below the white stripe. To my mind, this actually extends the metered area in such a way that it now is more like a centre weighted meter rather than a spot. I think it is important to understand the difference, or more importantly, how any difference effects your exposure and technique. Knowing which part, and how much, of your motif is measured is the vital clue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 12, 2009 Share #13 Posted October 12, 2009 Erl-- I think the M9 does return to a functionality similar to that of the center-weighted pattern of the M6/M7. The grey blades extend the meter sensitivity upward and downward, as you said, creating a larger, fuzzier, more rounded metering area than that of the M8. The diagram in the M8 manual clearly showed its elongated pattern, though apparently without taking into account the blade slant. But I agree also that we'll need some time to see whether that gentler shape has overcome the M8's tendency (which I've seen neither tested nor denied) to work more as an averaging meter with wide angles, and more as a spot with teles. I keep mentioning that claim in the hopes that someone will test it out (), but I think there is probably confirmation enough on the forum in reports of needing to take special care with wide-angles to avoid sky. I remember that Leica didn't actually have a full description of how the R3's averaging meter worked (coupling both the Minolta CLC circuitry and the Leica selective meter) until shortly before the R4 was introduced. It was a very forgiving meter, but one whose pattern would be impossible to describe in a usable way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdb Posted October 12, 2009 Share #14 Posted October 12, 2009 Yesterday was my first full day with my M9. I also shoot with an M8. There is no question that my initial exposures were markedly underexposed. I was using auto exposure as I do with the M8, set at -2/3 stop... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 12, 2009 Share #15 Posted October 12, 2009 Yesterday was my first full day with my M9. I also shoot with an M8. There is no question that my initial exposures were markedly underexposed. I was using auto exposure as I do with the M8, set at -2/3 stop... Virgil, I think you will find that generally you can omit the -2/3 when using the M9 to achieve your desired exposure. Always, there are exceptions of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdb Posted October 12, 2009 Share #16 Posted October 12, 2009 Virgil, I think you will find that generally you can omit the -2/3 when using the M9 to achieve your desired exposure. Always, there are exceptions of course. Yes, I figured that out after several snaps. Though I normally use manual exposure... Setting the M9 to 0 exposure compensation for auto metering worked fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 12, 2009 Share #17 Posted October 12, 2009 Just checked again, to make sure where what was said: About two minutes before the end of the Reichmann video, Stefan Daniel says that in comparison to the M8, the M9 metering "has gone from a more elliptical to a more round" pattern, more like that of the M6/M7, which many M users feel is about optimal. Thanks to David Farkas for raising the question! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted October 12, 2009 Share #18 Posted October 12, 2009 Howard, ALL meters work differently with wide angles than with teles, because they tend to take in more sky, or at a minimum, more different things with different reflectivities -- and a few extra light sources too! I had to be careful with wide angle lenses on my M6TTL. The old man from the Age of Selenium Meters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted October 12, 2009 Share #19 Posted October 12, 2009 Would be interesting to know how a 'round' shape is determined from the particular 'paint job' on the M9 shutter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share #20 Posted October 12, 2009 I'm intrigued here. The M9 is a FF camera just like the M7 so why not go back to the spot? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.