MSmelik Posted November 23, 2006 Share #1 Posted November 23, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) First of all I would like to stress the fact that this thread is not a rant/rave/****-up, if someone regards it at that, I'm truly sorry... Now for the question; I am a partner/owner of a TV production company which makes TV programs and items for German and Dutch television. My membership here is purely personal for I like taking snapshots and use various leicas for that reason. Upon having visited this site for quite some time now I am astonished by the reaction of most members to the "faulty" M8. These members remain true to there supplier at all times, whatever they do and whatever happens... They will remain to defend the companies strategy. This is something that doesn't happen much, if even at all within other sectors which has brought me to the idea to make a little documentary out of this, well any to pass it on to the production team for further research. We will be interested in quotes and views towards this phenomena and therefor am asking if anyone has a statement or is willing to assist us with the research .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 23, 2006 Posted November 23, 2006 Hi MSmelik, Take a look here A question to the Members of LUF. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
carstenw Posted November 23, 2006 Share #2 Posted November 23, 2006 First of all, there are plenty of naysayers around here. Secondly, anyone can have this kind of loyalty from their customers. They just have to create a new market of something, and then consistently deliver some of the best and highest quality products in that segment for the better part of a century, all along making sure to tidy up properly when they invariably make a mistake (M5, some R-models, M8...). Anybody can of course lose that faith by simply not tidying up properly. Some will claim that this has happened with the IR filters and the M8, but I would not be one of them. They are dealing with a really thorny problem as best they can. Maybe the tech will have advanced sufficiently in two or three years to defeat IR on the sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted November 23, 2006 Share #3 Posted November 23, 2006 First of all I would like to stress the fact that this thread is not a rant/rave/****-up, if someone regards it at that, I'm truly sorry... Now for the question; I am a partner/owner of a TV production company which makes TV programs and items for German and Dutch television. My membership here is purely personal for I like taking snapshots and use various leicas for that reason. Upon having visited this site for quite some time now I am astonished by the reaction of most members to the "faulty" M8. These members remain true to there supplier at all times, whatever they do and whatever happens... They will remain to defend the companies strategy. This is something that doesn't happen much, if even at all within other sectors which has brought me to the idea to make a little documentary out of this, well any to pass it on to the production team for further research. We will be interested in quotes and views towards this phenomena and therefor am asking if anyone has a statement or is willing to assist us with the research .... Um, many pro digital cameras are flawed in many ways. I know people who can't get a good file out of their 1dsM2 Canon (a very good camera) who nevertheless wouldn't sell it for the world. Leica glass is special. The M8 is the easiest to shoot pro digital camera I've ever had. Is it the easiest to get excellent picture quality from? No--you have to work a bit right now. Even once the bugs are fixed, you have to understand basic digital photography principles. But people are hanging in there because this is arguably the only pro digital rangefinder in the world right now. And, say what you like, the M8 is probably the least *optically* flawed portable digital camera out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakley Posted November 23, 2006 Share #4 Posted November 23, 2006 Martin, I think you could make a good documentary on this subject. You'd be shooting something you understand and love, you'd certainly be able to find colorful personalities, there's a bit of drama, and you have good contacts. Why not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSmelik Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share #5 Posted November 23, 2006 This will not be a "naysayer" anti leica thing. I don' know exactly yet but the main issue will be something like consumer customer satisfaction perhaps in various segments; cars, elctronics, PC's. I just find the leica users response so interesting that it gave me this idea. It will cetainly not be a full feature lenght film, nor will it be focussed at Leica specifically, just an article of interest in some or other actuality program. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj37 Posted November 23, 2006 Share #6 Posted November 23, 2006 I think every distinctive or highly individualized product provokes a spectrum of reactions: • Cultists, who adore the product with religious devotion and react angrily to any idea of it having faults, preferring either to deny these or to recast them as advantages. (I suspect that such people feel the product aligns strongly with their own personalities, so much so that they take criticism of it as a personal insult.) • Rational fans, who acknowledge that the product has flaws but feel that its advantages for them outweigh the flaws. (I feel this way about my Epson R-D 1.) • The vast majority of people, who don't see what all the fuss over the product is about. • Rational detractors, who acknowledge that the product has benefits (and may grudgingly buy one to get those benefits) but feel that on the whole the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. (I feel this way about my Nikon D80.) • Antagonists, who react with strong emotional negativity to the product and regard any discussion of its possible advantages as a fraud or an insult. (As with the cultists, I suspect this involves personal identification: The antagonist feels that the product's underlying values are so counter to his own that they constitute personal disparagement.) Leica cameras certainly are individualistic enough to get responses throughout this spectrum, and I can think of some other products that do the same: -- Apple Macintosh computers: I use one, I like it, I prefer it, but for someone who only needed to run Microsoft Office and wanted to save money, I'd have no problem recommending a Windows PC instead. However, many Mac loyalists regard that as treason, while Mac antagonists regard the whole "Mac cult" as a scam and an outrage. -- British sports cars: A world in which fluid leaks, parts that fall off, and engines that require full rebuilds every 2,500 miles are celebrated as signs of "true sporting character." -- The Toyota Prius: A sensible choice for someone who drives mostly around town, doesn't care about performance and handling, and likes to get good gas mileage, but there's a whole cult fringe who regard it as a world-saving moral statement and an equally vocal antagonist fringe who regard it as an attack on common sense. Agreed, this could be an interesting television documentary (especially with comments from psychologists specializing in beliefs and attachments, and market research professionals who specialize in building "brand loyalty") but it also would be a lightning rod for everyone who either loves or hates the products being profiled! The key question, one that probably doesn't have an answer: Why do people get so emotional about stuff, anyway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted November 23, 2006 Share #7 Posted November 23, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) The key question, one that probably doesn't have an answer: Why do people get so emotional about stuff, anyway? We don't have a life Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSmelik Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share #8 Posted November 23, 2006 .... (side comment) As for british sports cars .... exactly the same as leica cameras, I have a Morgan which I purchased in 2001, new.... have had nothing but troubles, it has been in the garage more than I have driven it, but when it is at "home" I can sit for hours and hours beside it and study it's beautiful and simple engineering, I simply love the car and will never get rid of it, despite the flaws, and there are a lot of them... (flaws I mean) This is exactly the thing that I want to present, maybe the love of a certain product, ones dedication to the maker, the silent love affair that we have with things with flaws .... (no comments about wives and girlfriends here) I realized when I got my M8 that it would never be sold, traded in or els wise ... If it would only shoot 640x480 images at 4000€ I would still keep it, this is exactly the goal of the production, well according to me at least ..... I am definately sure something interesting will come out of this ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlc43 Posted November 23, 2006 Share #9 Posted November 23, 2006 Have you noticed that cultish attachment to technology things is primarily a "guy thing?" Not too many women get so emotionally attached to technology stuff. They're into "relationships." But observe the intensity of expression on this and similar web sites. You can't help but conclude that guys' deep involvement in technology stuff provides a sideways pathway into--guess what? Relationships. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted November 23, 2006 Share #10 Posted November 23, 2006 I am a partner/owner of a TV production company which makes TV programs and items for German and Dutch television. Upon having visited this site for quite some time now I am astonished by the reaction of most members to the "faulty" M8. These members remain true to there supplier at all times, whatever they do and whatever happens... They will remain to defend the companies strategy. This is something that doesn't happen much, if even at all within other sectors which has brought me to the idea to make a little documentary out of this, ... The dialog would almost write itself, but how will you get the heads to do the talking? scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'Ate Posted November 23, 2006 Share #11 Posted November 23, 2006 Martin, for the ultimate in brand loyalty, find a Harley Davidson riding, Leica M3 owner. Camera welded to his hand and a Softail tattooed across his chest ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted November 23, 2006 Share #12 Posted November 23, 2006 ...and don't even start with guns! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted November 23, 2006 Share #13 Posted November 23, 2006 to make a little documentary out of this Send me the airline ticket book me in to the best hotel I shall be there Friday with all my charming little anectodes. Leica? Leica? Hmmm...They make cameras dont they? Anyway...more about me... Lord R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted November 23, 2006 Share #14 Posted November 23, 2006 Hmm, you seem to be implying that only those with an historical affiliation to the Leica brand are supporting the 'faulty' product. I for one have never owned a Leica and would probably never have done so if it weren't for the M8. But I recently purchased an M8, 100% aware of the IR/streak/band/blob stuff. Why? Because I've owned and used some of the finest cameras available and I think there is something unique about the M8. It is a false assumption that loyal users are Leciaphiles. Frankly, I couldn't give a damn who made it. It's just a truly extraordinary camera and, like most of the truly extraordinary people you meet, it has some flaws. Quote me! Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted November 23, 2006 Share #15 Posted November 23, 2006 A series of smart points and sharp analysis there. It does seem to me that some othe most outraged detractors of the M8 are those that have had a long affair with Leica and now feel 'jilted' by the M8. Hell hath no fury like a photographer scorned... Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'Ate Posted November 23, 2006 Share #16 Posted November 23, 2006 It's just a truly extraordinary camera and, like most of the truly extraordinary people you meet, it has some flaws. Quote me! Tim Just did. The M8 might need some refinement, but we are not talking "flaws" here ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted November 23, 2006 Share #17 Posted November 23, 2006 No, I'm sorry, it really really does have flaws. I forgive/accept/want to change them in proportion to their fixability but I think we need to keep some sort of realistic perspective even if we love it. Believe me, these issues count as flaws! Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted November 24, 2006 Share #18 Posted November 24, 2006 I agree. The need for IR filters is a flaw. Technology may improve in the next few years to the point where the IR filter on the sensor can remain 0,5mm yet mop up the rest of the IR, but until then, the situation is clearly suboptimal. I will keep mine, but I don't like the filters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted November 24, 2006 Share #19 Posted November 24, 2006 A melodrama it's just a truly extraordinary camera and, like most of the truly extraordinary people you meet starring Rob, Pamela and a hint of Paris, mind you Beckham's bride can supply the lens cover,......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 24, 2006 Share #20 Posted November 24, 2006 I think it's partly because Leica are really the only game in town when it comes to a high quality digital rangefinder. I've said it before, but much as I love using my Leicas, if something 'better' came along I'd use it. So I guess in my case what I like is using a rangefinder rather than necessarily Leica itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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