wdcraig1992 Posted October 5, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 5, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) So as you could probably discern from the title, I don't own anything Leica; unfortunately. However, I am hoping to jump into this wonderful "little" company sometime soon; however, I have a question or two. I have researched quite intensely for the past few months about rangefinders, their advantages and disadvantages, and the M8 and M8.2. I can't decide though which model would be better suited for me. Myself being a self proclaimed Leica virgin, I don't know if I could justify the additional price premium of the M8.2 over the M8. Do you guys think that the advantages in the M8.2 would really justify the extra grand or two in the aftermarket considering that I am brand new to this whole Leica field? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Hi wdcraig1992, Take a look here Leica Virgin, need a bit o' advice.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Nicoleica Posted October 5, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 5, 2009 Hi. First of all, welcome to the rangefinder camera world. Whichever camera you choose, you should find it to be a lovely camera to use, and one that can produce great results. As for which one is right for you though? Well, some things depend upon personal needs, and others are mainly cosmetic or a personal preference. If you need a higher flash sync speed, or 1/8000 sec shutter, then the standard M8 is the one to go for. (Also these may be at a lower cost.) If a slightly quieter shutter is most important, then the M8.2 may be best. If you are buying a black finish camera, then you may find that the M8 finish is more durable than the paint used on the M8.2. The other differences such as the frame lines, sapphire screen or body covering are really personal choices, and you may find one or more of these on various M8 cameras that have been upgraded. (Or you could have these upgrades done yourself, and get an extra year of warranty.) I'm sorry if this hasn't helped your choice very much, but all versions of the M8 are great cameras, and you should find that any one is a joy to use. If you can, try and handle a few different versions, and then you'll be better able to decide which differences are most important to you. I personally have a standard M8 in silver chrome, and am very happy with it. As I use a half-case, the body covering does not matter, (I don't think that there's anything wrong with the standard finish anyway.) and such a case mutes any slight sound differences. A sapphire screen is a very nice thing to have, but I have a cheap stick-on screen protector and tend not to scratch my cameras anyway. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaay Posted October 5, 2009 Share #3 Posted October 5, 2009 My advice is simple: buy a nice condition second hand black M8 (maybe from a dealer to get some sort of warrenty). Get a high serial number model and then buy a Luigi case which will protect the camera and the screen (and work for an M9 should you ever then trade up ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted October 5, 2009 Share #4 Posted October 5, 2009 My advice is simple: buy a nice condition second hand black M8 (maybe from a dealer to get some sort of warrenty). Get a high serial number model and then buy a Luigi case which will protect the camera and the screen (and work for an M9 should you ever then trade up ) Welcome Jaay to the friendly forum. The price differential between the two secondhand M8 cameras will diminish as the M9 flows into the market. When I bought my M8 I could not justify the near £1.000 price difference and was pleased to add a new 75mm Summarit with the money saved. That represented much better value for me. The above is good advice which I endorse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadside Posted October 5, 2009 Share #5 Posted October 5, 2009 I hope you have deep pockets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdb Posted October 5, 2009 Share #6 Posted October 5, 2009 My advice is simple: buy a nice condition second hand black M8 (maybe from a dealer to get some sort of warrenty). Get a high serial number model and then buy a Luigi case which will protect the camera and the screen (and work for an M9 should you ever then trade up ) Well said and I agree. You cannot beat the current price point on a used M8 classic for around US $2500 (or less). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted October 5, 2009 Share #7 Posted October 5, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) .. I can't decide though which model would be better suited for me.... If your shooting needs require the least intrusive shutter sound, the M8.2 is a better option. I have an M8 and think their choice of shutter and it's poor damping was a noisy, ludicrous choice; the M8.2 [on the side by side comparison I did with my M8] was a considerable improvement, as are it's better frameline settings. Some here believe that there is an inherent weakness in the M8 shutter due to it's travel speed and breaking necessary to gain 1/8000 sec. shutter speeds [for consenting perverts who photograph in bright sunshine at f1.0]. I would upgrade both the shutter, and the framelines to an M8u if I could; I do have concerns about the durability of my present shutter [frankly I would have been happier with a top speed of 1/2000, greater quietness, less stress on the shutter mechanisms, and greater assured durability]. I should also say that the shutter release on my M8 is gritty, and frankly poor [despite a wasted journey to Solms to deal with it], there are reports of variations with M8 shutter release in LUF, some had gritty shutter releases and others didn't - the M8.2 I tried was considerably better than my M8. These are some considerations that may or may not have importance for you. Your best option might be to wait a few months and let the secondhand M8/M8.2 prices find their correct level when more M9s have been sold. ..................... Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstotler Posted October 5, 2009 Share #8 Posted October 5, 2009 My advice is simple: buy a nice condition second hand black M8 (maybe from a dealer to get some sort of warrenty). Get a high serial number model and then buy a Luigi case which will protect the camera and the screen (and work for an M9 should you ever then trade up ) This is excellent advice. Get a body for as cheap as you can from a reputable dealer. If that's an M8 and not an M8.2, go for it--taken on the whole, the differences are incremental. (Not inconsequential, but in perspective, minor.) Figure any M8 that you buy (new or used) will need to be sent for service eventually--if not for just cleaning/adjustment than for some form of electronic issue. (Maybe not today or next year but eventually.) The good news here is that a used M8 + eventual repair will still likely cost less than the M8 did new. And you'll get your use out of it. (Mine has been for repair once--sensor line issue developed--but I have close to 40,000 actuations on it over two and a half years.) Consider worrying most about buying the very best glass you can afford and remember that you will need IR cut filters for it (and/or lens coding, if it's not coded--just figure you'll need to do this), so factor that into the spend. In other words, spend "slightly more than you're willing to pay" for the lens instead of thinking that way about the body. These are some considerations that may or may not have importance for you. Your best option might be to wait a few months and let the secondhand M8/M8.2 prices find their correct level when more M9s have been sold. Chris--I really respect your opinions and advice in general. I'm not so sure about this, though. Waiting may not mean the M8 finds a substantially cheaper floor--I'm assuming you do mean "cheaper" when you say "correct level." Leica goods just don't floor out like other goods I've seen and I'm thinking the M8 will not be an exception, even with its faults--the high price of the M9 may in fact keep the used market price of the M8 inflated--and rising. (I'm thinking the Noctilux vs. New Noctilux scenario.) In this case I'd say: Buy an M8 now and use it. Don't wait on price as that's an unknown--it can remain roughly the same, dip slightly, or even (yes, insane, but it happens in the Leicaverse) go up. Good luck and welcome to the forum! Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericperlberg Posted October 5, 2009 Share #9 Posted October 5, 2009 I have researched quite intensely for the past few months about rangefinders, their advantages and disadvantages, and the M8 and M8.2. I can't decide though which model would be better suited for me. 1) Will a slightly noisier shutter be a problem in the kind of shooting you hope to do? Yes=M8.2, No=M8 2) Do you shoot mostly close-up shots (1-2 metres) or do your subjects tend to be further from the camera? Close-up=the M8 will be fine, further away=you might prefer the M8.2 which has more accurate framelines for subjects at a distance (although rangefinders are not as accurate for framing as SLRs/DSLRs. 3) How well do you take care of your camera and how much do you care about its fondability (Leicas are beautiful objects and there is no reason to be ashamed of wanting to keep it looking nice except when you forego using it in order to keep it pristine)? M8 back LCD can get scratched by shoving it in and out of an unprotected bag, rubbing against metal etc. The scratches are a bit unsightly but don't generally effect your ability to see the LCD when its on. 4) Do you shoot in bright sunlight with lens wide open (to blur the background) then you may appreciate the 1/8000 shutter speed of the M8. If that's not such a big a deal then the M8.2 will be ok, its highest shutter speed 1/4000. If you don't know the answer to how you feel about this, then either camera will be fine. 5) The feel of the material covering the M8 and M8.2 is slightly different. You may prefer one or the other or you may (like me) not think its very important. 6) An M8.2 is more likely to have its passport guarantee still valid. If you find an M8.2 (or an M8) with a passport guarantee with time left on it it could be reassuring if you're concerned about the condition of the camera. Mostly the M8.2 is a refined version of the M8. Ultimately, the important bit is that the sensor is the same so all things being equal, your images will not improve by buying an M8.2. You'll also need lenses and if money is tight, look into voigtlander lenses, esp used ones. They cost a fraction of Leica lenses but in general perform very well. Good luck with your decision. Both the M8 and M8.2 are capable of producing very fine files well beyond what many would expect of a diminutive camera like this. The differences between the two models are about relatively minor operational issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted October 5, 2009 Share #10 Posted October 5, 2009 ... Waiting may not mean the M8 finds a substantially cheaper floor--I'm assuming you do mean "cheaper" when you say "correct level."....l Will - Thank you for your kind words. I have been looking at some UK dealers sites and was surprised by the number of M8s and M8.2 cameras they had as second-hand stock, and this before the M9 is reaching the shops in significant numbers. Christmas is [frighteningly] only 2 1/2 months away and will likely create a sales surge for the M9 and release more M8s to the second-hand market. The M8 prices I saw felt unsustainably high for a discontinued digital camera which received bad press on launch [regardless of how we might consider it]. When more M8s need shifting from dealers shelves; my logic was that prices would lower, but at best it's a logical guess. But you may be right to suggest more caution than I did in thinking prices should come down. It is Leica after all, and dealers never cease to amaze me how much inventory they are willing to keep on their shelves rather than drop prices. .............. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdcraig1992 Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted October 6, 2009 Thank you all very much for the help. This has helped reaffirm my general thinking that the M8 would suit my needs quite exceptionally. I don't plan on shooting anything in which the shutter noise would cause a problem, so the M8 wins out there. I also do take quite good care of my equipment, so the sapphire glass shant make too big of a difference to me all things considered. Like I said, thanks; for the help, and for the nice welcome! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mborkowski14 Posted October 6, 2009 Share #12 Posted October 6, 2009 I'm guessing, based solely on your last post, Craig, that you're gonna go for the M8. I recently purchased an M8.2, and have used an M8 as well. Either camera will be a magnificent step into the Leica world, but as Jaay said earlier, spring for a Luigi case. I just got my first Luigi, and it truly complements the camera, and enhances you shooting experience. Best of luck with whatever you choose!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdcraig1992 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted October 15, 2009 You would be correct in assuming that. I really can't justify the extra price premium for such minimal gains that wouldn't affect me much. So it seems the M8 will be my first bit of Leica joy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugleone Posted October 15, 2009 Share #14 Posted October 15, 2009 So, what is a "high serial number" to look for...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalina Posted October 15, 2009 Share #15 Posted October 15, 2009 So as you could probably discern from the title, I don't own anything Leica; unfortunately. However, I am hoping to jump into this wonderful "little" company sometime soon; however, I have a question or two. I have researched quite intensely for the past few months about rangefinders, their advantages and disadvantages, and the M8 and M8.2. I can't decide though which model would be better suited for me. Myself being a self proclaimed Leica virgin, I don't know if I could justify the additional price premium of the M8.2 over the M8. Do you guys think that the advantages in the M8.2 would really justify the extra grand or two in the aftermarket considering that I am brand new to this whole Leica field? I think you should get an M8 and a 35mm Summicron and try this setup for a few months to see how you like it. Right now, it looks like the upgrade prices + the price of the M8 equals an M8.2 so you'll save yourself some money if you feel you don't really need the upgrades. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiukuic5609 Posted October 25, 2009 Share #16 Posted October 25, 2009 I was just in the same position. With the introduction of the M9, it made a lot of M8s appear on the market and brought the price down to where I could actually afford a pretty nice leica system. I took to opportunity to sell all of my dslr equipment (which I never brought with me because it was all too damn heavy), and I purchased a min condition M8 (from someone here on the forum) and an Elmarit 28mm (Mk III, Canada). What I'm left with is a camera that I'll be able to bring everywhere. I'm glad I've joined the world of rangefinders, and having never shot a RF before I'm excited. I think you will be happy with going with a M8 now and a high-quality lens. I figure if I can get a few years out of the M8, the M10 will be out and the price of the M9 will be the same as what I paid for the M8. I don't know if I will try the upgrade, we'll see how it goes... until then I'll be a happy leica shooter! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artears Posted October 25, 2009 Share #17 Posted October 25, 2009 I would suggest you pick one of the later M8 cameras in mint condition, preferably from someone local, so that you can examine the camera, take a few pictures and see its condition. Acmaxx produces very nice screen protectors, so for an additional $20 or so, you won't miss the sapphire lcd. The shutter speed of 1/8000 is more valuable to me than the quietness, so M8 wins another point here besides the price advantage for me at least. About the framelines, well, I am using an M8 right now and did not want the framelines to be better in any way so far, so I guess it is user preference. At the end, you can opt for a mint condition M8 instead of M8.2 and spend the remaining money for lenses. Dealing locally is also the best approach IMHO. Before getting lenses, I suggest checking reidreviews.com as well. You can examine all the tests, which, I think, is worth the money Sean Reid is asking for the membership. It will save you a lot in the long run... Before I forget, if you are coming from dslr/slr world, do not change your mind about purchasing a lens, if people are complaining about its size . All rf lenses are smaller than the comparable ones from slr world. I recently examined 35 f/1.2 nokton on M8, and I did not find it to be that big. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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