Zsolt Arkossy Posted October 4, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 4, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello to All of you! I am new to this Forum, but not new to photography or the Leica community (owning a beautiful Minilux). I do have a true obsession towards Leica, despite knowing that owning any DSLR is much more realistic decision nowadays, but I do believe that the M series would provide me a different option to shoot some pictures I always missed because of the gear I owned earlier. I am more obsessed about simplicity and the artistic part of photography rather than the gear. In a few months I am planning to make one of the biggest investments in my photographic gears and I would like to ask You - the Leica User community - some advice. I am planning to order an M9 and I was wondering about the lens choices. Coming from Canon I own a selection of lenses and I would like to do actually the opposite: own less lenses with the M9. Fewer gear to worry, more shots to take. Ideally I would like to carry max 2 lenses, but have funds for 3 if needed... My original idea was to own the Summicron 28mm f/2 and Summicron 90mm /f2. But at the same time I have a true bias towards the Summilux 35mm f/1.4... for some reason I really like the 35mm focal length, although sometimes find just a bit tad long compared to 28mm. On the other hand in the digital workflow allows to crop a bit the 28mm shot to get the 35mm view. Owning both the 28/35 would be an overkill I guess. A 24/35 would be more sensible, but I am not interested in anything wider than 28. Also, for some weird reason the Summilux 50mm f/1.4 is also very tempting, despite 50mm being a bit dull length... never too good (too short/too wide). But somehow I would miss from my bag the 50mm. So, in a nutshell, I would like your advice, what would you recommend to buy if you would need to select 1 lens, 2 lenses or 3 lenses for the M9. Picture quality (color, sharpness, contrast) is my number 1 priority, aperture capability (f/1.4 - - - f/2.8) is my second and the size (e.g. viewfinder blocking) is my third priority. If you are interested what pictures I take, please visit my site: Silent Photo - "Re-live the past" Thank you very much for your kind support and advice! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 4, 2009 Posted October 4, 2009 Hi Zsolt Arkossy, Take a look here Lens advice for M9. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
misha Posted October 4, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 4, 2009 a good used 35cron. thats all ) cheers misha PHOTOGRAPHY BY MISHA FRIEDMAN Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthurman Posted October 4, 2009 Share #3 Posted October 4, 2009 I'm new here as well and like you, planning on purchasing an M9 when one is available. As this will be my first Leica (I have shot with M3's and M6's but didn't own them), I am in the lens market too. The Summilux 50/1.4 is definitely on the list but I am thinking my first lens will be the Summicron 35/2.0. Again, like you, I don't want a lot of lenses for the camera. I am currently shooting a D700, often with fast zooms, and the weight adds up very quickly- so much so that the lens I use the most is the 24-70/2.8 ED, which is anything but a lightweight lens. Throw the 14-24/2.8 ED in the bag and it's starting to add up. I quit carrying the 70-200/2.8 ED unless I know I will have a specific use for it. For the moment, I think I can stall purchasing the 'lux lenses as the D700 with fast glass is just a superb low-light camera. I do want that 50 though- I like using Nikkor's 50/1.4 and I know the 'lux is in a class by itself. I am very interested in reading the replies to this thread as I'll probably buy the lens before I buy the camera body, which I hope I can get in early November. Wendy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zsolt Arkossy Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share #4 Posted October 4, 2009 a good used 35cron. thats all ) Simplicity is the name of the game... My deepest feelings say the same... the smallest 35 cron... and that's all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zsolt Arkossy Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted October 4, 2009 I'm new here as well and like you, planning on purchasing an M9 when one is available. As this will be my first Leica (I have shot with M3's and M6's but didn't own them), I am in the lens market too. The Summilux 50/1.4 is definitely on the list but I am thinking my first lens will be the Summicron 35/2.0. Again, like you, I don't want a lot of lenses for the camera. I am currently shooting a D700, often with fast zooms, and the weight adds up very quickly- so much so that the lens I use the most is the 24-70/2.8 ED, which is anything but a lightweight lens. Throw the 14-24/2.8 ED in the bag and it's starting to add up. I quit carrying the 70-200/2.8 ED unless I know I will have a specific use for it. For the moment, I think I can stall purchasing the 'lux lenses as the D700 with fast glass is just a superb low-light camera. I do want that 50 though- I like using Nikkor's 50/1.4 and I know the 'lux is in a class by itself. I am very interested in reading the replies to this thread as I'll probably buy the lens before I buy the camera body, which I hope I can get in early November. Wendy Wendy, Let's stick together, we might get some very good advice here! I am a long time reader of this wonderful forum community and I almost always got an answer to my questions even without asking (I used the search engine first :-) I hear what you say in terms of load... although I am a Canon shooter, during the years I got quite at few lenses (16-35, 28-70, 70-200 and a few primes 28, 50, 85). These are all good lenses and the 40D is serving me well, no complaints. But still, I do miss the total manual freedom of photography... I am looking more to "feeling" and "vision change" rather than technical improvement (pixel analysis, MTF chart comparisons). All these do not interest me at all. But the sound of the shutter much more... So let's stick together and see what we will get out of it! I wish you all the best! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharyngula Posted October 4, 2009 Share #6 Posted October 4, 2009 Well, I just purchased a very nice used 35 Cron ASPH with my future M9 in mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zsolt Arkossy Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted October 4, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, I just purchased a very nice used 35 Cron ASPH with my future M9 in mind. Congratulations!! May I ask you why did you choose the Cron and not the Lux? (size? weight? sharpness? color rendition? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wthurman Posted October 4, 2009 Share #8 Posted October 4, 2009 Wendy,Let's stick together, we might get some very good advice here! I am a long time reader of this wonderful forum community and I almost always got an answer to my questions even without asking (I used the search engine first :-) I hear what you say in terms of load... although I am a Canon shooter, during the years I got quite at few lenses (16-35, 28-70, 70-200 and a few primes 28, 50, 85). These are all good lenses and the 40D is serving me well, no complaints. But still, I do miss the total manual freedom of photography... I am looking more to "feeling" and "vision change" rather than technical improvement (pixel analysis, MTF chart comparisons). All these do not interest me at all. But the sound of the shutter much more... So let's stick together and see what we will get out of it! I wish you all the best! I've searched through a lot of the threads here and the general consensus seems to be "go with the 35 'cron" so that's the direction I am leaning. I completely understand the "feeling" and "vision change" you refer to. That's important to me as well. As much as I like the system I have now, when the camera is in front of my face I feel somewhat removed from the image as a whole. Street photography is a huge interest and this big DSLR can be aggravating when on the street. I live and work in Afghanistan and the Nikon system has its uses here but in the cities and among the people, it just doesn't work well. Wendy (not in the military) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zsolt Arkossy Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted October 4, 2009 Street photography is a huge interest and this big DSLR can be aggravating when on the street. I live and work in Afghanistan and the Nikon system has its uses here but in the cities and among the people, it just doesn't work well. I hear what you say. I guess all of us are looking for the perfect solution :-) It is interesting that so many are recommending the cron instead of the lux. Again, I am not familiar with the M lenses, so the cron might be really much better, but by default I thought that the one stop advantage over the cron would be beneficial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted October 4, 2009 Share #10 Posted October 4, 2009 You should first decide on focal lengths, before you start drooling over particular lenses! 35, 50 and 90mm have been the universal 'Holy Trinity' since M2 days (end of 1950's) and still make sense both on film and with the 24x36mm sensor of the M9. The 50 and the 35 vie for the title of the single most useable lens. If you are a reasonable extrovert 'action' type shooter, 35 may well be the way to go, however. In both cases 90mm is the obvious second (or third) lens. People have traveled around the world with just a 35 and a 90, because that combo will cover about 98% of everything. It was the classical photojournalist kit. Remember, with a M you 'zoom with your feet', if necessary. But as I have stated before here, a M photog knows beforehand which lens will be the most appropriate in the kinds of situations he will likely encounter. And then you have your '35mm eyes' or '90mm eyes' or whatever on, and you have selected a suitable working aperture (and also a ditto shutter speed, if you prefer manual exposure), previsualised the picture and determined on what to focus, already >before< you raise the camera to your eye. You carry the camera with the lens set to infinity, so focus is just a quick finger movement. Recompose, and click. That's it. You are in the driver's seat. Your hands are directly on the controls. You will have to learn to drive. But learning is fast, if you already know what apertures, shutter speeds and exposures are, and do. Take a look at used, modern (but not necessarily current) used Leica lenses in good shape. They keep amazingly well. Zeiss and 'Voigtländer' (Cosina) are alternatives. You cannot get at half or even a quarter of the price what you can get from Leica, but Zeiss can come remarkably close, and Cosina too have some good lenses. If you do not want the hassle of having an older or independent-made, not 6-bit coded lens coded, then take a look at the current Leica Summarit line. These are excellent lenses. But you will need either a 35 or a 50 with good speed, meaning f:2. The old man from the Age of Kodachrome II Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissah Posted October 4, 2009 Share #11 Posted October 4, 2009 hello all! i too have some questions about lens choice. i am going to sell my back up m8 (which is perfect given that its been used very little) and one of my lenses. i was careful when i bought my system to buy good glass because i could afford it. i have a 28 f/2 cron, a 35 f/2 cron, a nocti, and a 75 f/2cron and a voightlander 15-(18? newest one..) the nocti, which granted is heavy i love. its very difficult at times but thats love. the 75, although beautiful i dont often use, but when im in a situation thats calls for alittle distance its perfect. obviously the voightlander is a keeper bc selling it wont make a difference for my fund-raising. which, brings me to the 28 and the 35. even on the m8 i love the 35. ive gone back and forth between the two lenses and i lean towards the 35. everyone says the 28 is really a 35 on the m8 and thats correct in terms of crop, but even on the m8 the 28 looks different. by that i mean if i move farther back with the 35 and the image area is the same the look (to me ) is different. today when i was looking up the costs of the lenses, i see that my 28 is almost $1000 more than the 35. so all of you wonderful shooters out there what would you do? and pls remember i will be keeping one of my current m8s. tia, melissa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zsolt Arkossy Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share #12 Posted October 4, 2009 You should first decide on focal lengths, before you start drooling over particular lenses! 35, 50 and 90mm have been the universal 'Holy Trinity' since M2 days (end of 1950's) and still make sense both on film and with the 24x36mm sensor of the M9. The 50 and the 35 vie for the title of the single most useable lens. If you are a reasonable extrovert 'action' type shooter, 35 may well be the way to go, however. In both cases 90mm is the obvious second (or third) lens. People have traveled around the world with just a 35 and a 90, because that combo will cover about 98% of everything. It was the classical photojournalist kit. Remember, with a M you 'zoom with your feet', if necessary. But as I have stated before here, a M photog knows beforehand which lens will be the most appropriate in the kinds of situations he will likely encounter. And then you have your '35mm eyes' or '90mm eyes' or whatever on, and you have selected a suitable working aperture (and also a ditto shutter speed, if you prefer manual exposure), previsualised the picture and determined on what to focus, already >before< you raise the camera to your eye. You carry the camera with the lens set to infinity, so focus is just a quick finger movement. Recompose, and click. That's it. You are in the driver's seat. Your hands are directly on the controls. You will have to learn to drive. But learning is fast, if you already know what apertures, shutter speeds and exposures are, and do. Take a look at used, modern (but not necessarily current) used Leica lenses in good shape. They keep amazingly well. Zeiss and 'Voigtländer' (Cosina) are alternatives. You cannot get at half or even a quarter of the price what you can get from Leica, but Zeiss can come remarkably close, and Cosina too have some good lenses. If you do not want the hassle of having an older or independent-made, not 6-bit coded lens coded, then take a look at the current Leica Summarit line. These are excellent lenses. But you will need either a 35 or a 50 with good speed, meaning f:2. The old man from the Age of Kodachrome II Lars, Thank you for the insight! I hear that you speak from experience, so I am listening carefully. I agree with everything you have said in your remark. As I mentioned in my first post, I am also looking for simplicity. I don't think I need more than 1 max 2 lenses. I think the 90 cron is kind of obvious choice, where I am more stuck is the 28 vs 35 and the cron vs lux (in case of 35) question... I guess I will go the 35 cron path unless somebody tells me that i should take the lux instead. I live in Hungary, and I have very limited options to try/order any Leica lens or body. Therefore I really need to rely on comments like yours what to choose as I might need to stick with my decision for a long-long time :-) Thanks again for your comments, Lars! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zsolt Arkossy Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted October 4, 2009 which, brings me to the 28 and the 35. even on the m8 i love the 35. ive gone back and forth between the two lenses and i lean towards the 35. everyone says the 28 is really a 35 on the m8 and thats correct in terms of crop, but even on the m8 the 28 looks different. by that i mean if i move farther back with the 35 and the image area is the same the look (to me ) is different. Hi Melissa, Happy to hear that you have positive experience with the 35 cron! One more + reason to go that way! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted October 4, 2009 Share #14 Posted October 4, 2009 Melissah, it would seem that 28 + 50mm gives you better range than 35 + 50, where 75 would be a better companion. In crowded urban environments 28--50 is a natural combo (but there are urban environments where I would not like to swing a Nocti). And the 28mm Summicron is a marvelous lens. If you sell it, you will mourn it. That said, if I had your lenses and could keep only one, it would be the 35mm Summicron ASPH. It is the most universally useable of them all. A natural companion to it might be a 90mm Summarit. The old man from the Age of Kodachrome II Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted October 4, 2009 Share #15 Posted October 4, 2009 CDColt: The 35mm Summilux ASPH is a much maligned lens, but it is a lovely one, and its focus-shifting quirk is much less an issue in real life than when pixel-peeping. It is eminently useable (I do own one.) But the 'cron is just as good, f-stop for f-stop, and now when we have gone digital we really do not need extremely fast lenses the way we did when we loaded Kodachrome, or even Tri-X. So the 'cron will be perfectly suitable, smaller, lighter, and (somewhat) less expensive. So that would be the way to go. The old man from the Age of Kodachrome II Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zsolt Arkossy Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share #16 Posted October 4, 2009 But the 'cron is just as good, f-stop for f-stop, and now when we have gone digital we really do not need extremely fast lenses the way we did when we loaded Kodachrome, or even Tri-X. So the 'cron will be perfectly suitable, smaller, lighter, and (somewhat) less expensive. So that would be the way to go. Lars, Thanks for the heads-up! I feel more and more comfortable thinking about the 35 cron... I just subscribed to Reid Review and reading all relevant posts. I am so enthusiastic about owning one day an M series Leica (I felt the same when I bought the Leica Minilux - still my favorite film camera). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_w Posted October 4, 2009 Share #17 Posted October 4, 2009 The 35 Asph Lux was the lens for which I moved to rangefinder photography originally. When that lens came out I bought the lens, and then the camera needed for it, i.e. the M6 at that time. It was, and still is, a stunning optic. Most people find they operate closer to their subjects with the M because it is less intrusive. Therefore a slightly wider POV often works better than the one you would choose on an SLR. While the 35 Cron is also wonderful, the Lux will give you shallow DOF and better separation of the main subject. And, of course, an extra stop in low light situations. It remains my prefered lens (14 years later). With a 90mm companion you may never need more than two lenses. That said, I have ended up with five, but that is largely due to the crop factor on the M8. Cheers Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zsolt Arkossy Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted October 4, 2009 Robert - thank you for the comment on the Lux! At least you are also reinforcing my initial gut feel that the 35mm is one magical lens. Also the 90 cron is almost non debatable option, so then it seems that the only call I need to make is betweek the 35mm cron vs lux... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted October 4, 2009 Share #19 Posted October 4, 2009 The old German definition of 'professor' was 'jemand der von einer anderer Meinung ist' -- 'somebody who is of a different opinion' -- and that is a good definition of 'Leica enthusiast' too. The old man from the Age of Absent-minded Professors Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLV Posted October 4, 2009 Share #20 Posted October 4, 2009 Hi CDColt, Wendy and Melissa, Here are my 2 cents. Selling my M8 to purchase a M9 ( wich I hope is on its way to the shop) I wanted to stick with 2 lenses on a common base and an occasionnal 3rd lens for special occasions. I bought both new a 35 cron asph and a 50 lux asph. I found that the 35 and 50 was too close and it was obvious as I used an old 35 as my main lens on my former M6 that I would keep my 35. I chose the cron vs the lux because of focus shift problems described on the forum. So I sold my 50 lux and bought a 75 cron apo asph wich is IMHo as good as the 50 lux in terms of rendering and IQ. On a FF, 35 for street photography and 75 for portraits and "fashion" are the best combination for me. The 3rd lens will be the super elmar 18 3.8 for landscapes and architecture. PS; CDColt, I saw your work and I find it beautiful. You have a real eye and I feel (don't ask me why) that a M will fit your skills perfectly. All the best, Jean-Luc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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