delander † Posted October 2, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 2, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Its overcomplicated, inherited from the M8's noise problems. Why did they not break the link with the M8 and just put in a nice quiet soft shutter, as in the film cameras. Opportunity missed I fear. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 Hi delander †, Take a look here M9 shutter button options. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
fotografr Posted October 2, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 2, 2009 Its overcomplicated, inherited from the M8's noise problems. Why did they not break the link with the M8 and just put in a nice quiet soft shutter, as in the film cameras. Opportunity missed I fear. Jeff Saving something for the M10, no doubt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 2, 2009 Share #3 Posted October 2, 2009 Not much they could do. You need to turn the meter on when it is off. You need to lock the meter reading, IE shutter speed in A mode, if you want full control of the exposure. The M9 does have a soft release feature that fires the shutter with a slight press of the button (some say (Manual says) with a press to just past the first stop other say with any press of the release button. like when using the timer function). But this is best used in manual mode as when using the soft release feature you can not lock the shutter speed. The only other thing they could of done is put another button on the back someplace to turn on the meter and to also lock the shutter speed in A mode. But that would of taken 2 buttons or a 2 step button. It's bad enough now that you can change settings and turn on review without ever knowing it because the button on the back of the camera stick out to far. Just think if there was a button or buttons to turn on the meter and to lock the exposure. The camera would never auto turn off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravastar Posted October 2, 2009 Share #4 Posted October 2, 2009 If you mean the old cloth M shutters there's no room for the rollers that the blinds wrap around, also being mechanically timed it's less accurate. Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted October 2, 2009 But why could they not have retained the simple functionality of the original M8 shutter button but just made it softer and quieter to use? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 2, 2009 Share #6 Posted October 2, 2009 If you mean the old cloth M shutters there's no room for the rollers that the blinds wrap around, also being mechanically timed it's less accurate. Bob. Yeah in the thread header he says Shutter Release Button but then in the post itself he says Quiet Shutter. From all reports the M8u/M8.2/M9 shutter is almost as quiet as the film M's and 2 stops faster. Some being quieter then others and some saying the M9 shutter isn't as quiet as the M8u/M8.2. Don't know myself, no M9, M8u or M8.2. But I do have a M7 and M8c and the M7 is very quiet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 2, 2009 Share #7 Posted October 2, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) But why could they not have retained the simple functionality of the original M8 shutter button but just made it softer and quieter to use? Jeff There is sample variation on all the M digitals. I've had 2 chrome and 2 black M8's and both of the black M8's had easier release and smoother action shutter buttons then the chrome versions. As far as noise, well maybe I don't notice it because of the shutter noise, but I never thought the buttom made any real noise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishblimp Posted October 2, 2009 Share #8 Posted October 2, 2009 I don't have superhuman hearing (like some of the users on here?), but I do have an M9 and I did have an M8.2 and from what I can tell the M9 is either the same as or more quiet than the M8.2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted October 2, 2009 Share #9 Posted October 2, 2009 During my brief test I really liked the soft release function, I think it was a great idea and, aside from the main differences (new bigger sensor, etc.), I think it's one of the best improvements over the M8.x series. I always felt like the travel on the M8 release was too long, I never realized it was due to the fact that it was a three-way switch. Having never put the camera on auto I had no idea there even was an exposure lock. When I was shooting with M8s I originally though the discreet mode was silly, but after the firmware upgrade (finally!) allowed it, I changed my mind quickly. Splitting up the noises (shutter firing and recocking motor) makes the camera much quieter. It's just like film now, you can either wind right away or wait a moment if you prefer. I always plan to leave my M9s on soft/discreet mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted October 2, 2009 What I'm trying say is why couldn't the M9 have had a new quiet shutter (not cloth, does the M7 have cloth) and a soundless rewind? Thus no need for all the options. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_mcdermott Posted October 2, 2009 Share #11 Posted October 2, 2009 Yes, M7 is cloth. You're not getting a soundless rewind with a metal shutter. Personally I think the shutter on M8u and 8.2 (haven't heard M9) is adequately quiet, especially with the discreet rewind to separate the sounds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 2, 2009 Share #12 Posted October 2, 2009 What I'm trying say is why couldn't the M9 have had a new quiet shutter (not cloth, does the M7 have cloth) and a soundless rewind? Thus no need for all the options. Jeff There will always be a need for these options. Even the M7 has these options and maybe the M6TTL ( Never owned a M6TTL). On M7 slight press turns the meter on, then you go to the stop to lock the shutter speed in A mode, then press past that to fire the shutter. Even if you're not using A mode the stops are still there. Maybe you need to get a M film camera and forget about digital. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted October 3, 2009 Share #13 Posted October 3, 2009 During my brief test I really liked the soft release function, I think it was a great idea and, aside from the main differences (new bigger sensor, etc.), I think it's one of the best improvements over the M8.x series. I always felt like the travel on the M8 release was too long, I never realized it was due to the fact that it was a three-way switch. Having never put the camera on auto I had no idea there even was an exposure lock. When I was shooting with M8s I originally though the discreet mode was silly, but after the firmware upgrade (finally!) allowed it, I changed my mind quickly. Splitting up the noises (shutter firing and recocking motor) makes the camera much quieter. It's just like film now, you can either wind right away or wait a moment if you prefer. I always plan to leave my M9s on soft/discreet mode. I had a play with using soft release and exposure comp instead of locking exposure and recomposing. Might actually be a feasible way of shooting, but I worry that I would forget the comp setting. I wish there was a way to apply it only to the current shot and then have it reset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 3, 2009 Share #14 Posted October 3, 2009 I had a play with using soft release and exposure comp instead of locking exposure and recomposing. Might actually be a feasible way of shooting, but I worry that I would forget the comp setting. I wish there was a way to apply it only to the current shot and then have it reset. Why not go full manual? That way you never have to deal with the exposure compensation settings and you set it for each shot. In the end manual will be faster then setting EC and changing that for each shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted October 3, 2009 Share #15 Posted October 3, 2009 Why not go full manual? That way you never have to deal with the exposure compensation settings and you set it for each shot. In the end manual will be faster then setting EC and changing that for each shot. Yeah - I often shoot manual when I'm taking a number of shots in consistent lighting. But I like auto for variable light or occasional quick shots. I guess when I get an M9, I'll see how it plays out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share #16 Posted October 4, 2009 There will always be a need for these options. Even the M7 has these options and maybe the M6TTL ( Never owned a M6TTL).On M7 slight press turns the meter on, then you go to the stop to lock the shutter speed in A mode, then press past that to fire the shutter. Even if you're not using A mode the stops are still there. Maybe you need to get a M film camera and forget about digital. When I bought my M8 you just pressed the shutter button. OK many complained about the shutter noise etc. Now the M9 has standard, discreet, soft and soft & discreet all left over from using the M8 shutter arrangements. With film cameras you just press the shutter button and it works. What I would like I suppose is a mechanical engineering solution to the problems as opposed to the introduction of 4 shutter options. The 1/4000th shutter of the M8.2 evidently went some way in this direction but why not engineer a solution to the noisy rewind so that we just have to press the shutter button and it all happens smoothly and quietly. Surely that just requires a bit of the famous Leica mechanical engineering? With regard to your last comment I'm considering starting with film again, although I would still keep digital. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 4, 2009 Share #17 Posted October 4, 2009 The shutter in the M9 may not be as quiet as my M4. On the other hand it is a lot quieter than I am, when I am discussing with the processor, why they have ruined yet another film. It is not too bad in France, where I am lucky enough to have a branch of Picto quite close. In the UK I cannot say that in the last two to three years I have had a B&W film really well processed and high pixel scanned. Before anyone suggests it, can I say that after many years of using photo chemicals, I am now very sensitive to them and cannot use them at all, plus my Artixscan 4500 literally went up in smoke. Not having to put up with badly processed film is one of the great joys of digital. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted October 4, 2009 Share #18 Posted October 4, 2009 With film cameras you just press the shutter button and it works. What I would like I suppose is a mechanical engineering solution to the problems as opposed to the introduction of 4 shutter options. When I pressed the shutter button on the M9 guess what happened? It worked. I'm sure leica considered the wind-on noise, but perhaps making it quieter would have slowed down the camera, or made it less durable, or had some other undesirable consequence. You can leave the M9 on standard mode and it works great, is much quieter than any other full-frame 35mm digital camera and as quiet as most film cameras. But I'm glad Leica have given us options. They're in menus, not in extra buttons cluttering up the camera, so I don't really see the downside. Clearly people have different needs. I only shoot manual, so I would love it if leica would have made the camera to only have a two-position shutter. Come to think of it, I'd prefer if there were no "A" mode on the shutter dial and no auto iso in the menu. But even though Leicas are not mass-market cameras, they still need to appeal to a range of tastes, albeit a smaller range than the Canons and Nikons. Luckily when adding features Leica usually does it in an unobtrusive way. If the shutter options bother you, you really can just ignore them, just as I ignore all of the auto features and I'm sure other shooters ignore other features. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted October 4, 2009 Share #19 Posted October 4, 2009 The M9 does have a soft release feature that fires the shutter with a slight press of the button (some say (Manual says) with a press to just past the first stop other say with any press of the release button. like when using the timer function). But this is best used in manual mode as when using the soft release feature you can not lock the shutter speed. Yes, when used in manual mode the M9 should switch automatically to soft mode for that reason. Lucien Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tchoi Posted November 8, 2009 Share #20 Posted November 8, 2009 This may be off topic and discussed previously, but is a mechanical shutter needed at all? I know with the canon dSLRs the mechanical shutter only goes to a certain speed, after which a electronic shutter operates. The electronic shutter is just turning on or off the sensor for the duration of exposure. I thought it might have to do with sensor sensitivity or 'wear and tear' on the photosites, but point and shoots don't have mechanical shutters, do they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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