smb Posted October 2, 2009 Share #21 Posted October 2, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) There are places that rent cameras for a day. You might look for one of them and try a Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 Hi smb, Take a look here Is the Leica M9 suitable for me?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest Bernd Banken Posted October 2, 2009 Share #22 Posted October 2, 2009 only one day might be frustrating Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingaun Posted October 3, 2009 Author Share #23 Posted October 3, 2009 Wow .... i just came back to office and shock to see so many helpful replies. Thank you all for contributing, very much appreciated. Last night i was thinking to myself just forget Leica, i am just a casual photographer, an amateur, people will laugh at me for wasting that money. So i started entertaining the idea of micro 4/3 using Leica glass but then i realise doing that will not improve my skills, so back to Nikon. Thought of coming here this morning and thanking you all and going back to the coming D700x. But you guys are good and very infectious. Reading all this posts makes me want Leica again. I dont know what to say. Firstly there is no possibility of renting here. So i need to buy if anything. Secondly the film cameras are good but i feel my learning curve might be steeper because i need instant feedback from the digital, though i did thought about an M7. The good thing about film is that i can just keep it and dont worry too much about going outdated. Now i hear the M8 from you guys loud and clear. I am a bit tempted to get a second hand M8. And if i really like it, i will patiently use it for what its worth and hopefully upgrade when the M10 comes around ( I am a patient guy, who can wait as long as i have a camera, thats why i am still at D200 because i could not see much difference in quality with the other models at base iso). But having said that the one thing that irritates me is that, i doubt the quality of an M8 picture will not differ a lot from the D200. About the focus, during my short test of the M8, all the images actually turn out sharp when we zoom into the LCD screen, even wide open. That shock me a little bit, seem a lot easier than i thought. I now just need some time to get things sorted out. I am actually going to New Zealand in one months time and thus the reason to buy the 14-24. If i had my way i would get the zoom and a set of Leica system, but i have another half to honor and love. My wife cannot understand what the fuss is all about, she is happy with the D200. Thanks again for all you wonderful folks, really helping make decisions easier. I just want to enjoy making pictures ..... its that simple. Regards Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phovsho Posted October 3, 2009 Share #24 Posted October 3, 2009 My wife has always been a keen Nikon photographer and her recent system was very similar to your aspiring system - she had D700 and similar lenses to your own. She recently tried my M8 and within 48 hours had determined to sell her D700. She was lucky and got one of three M9 which have made it to New Zealand. She is now in love with this camera. She takes it with her everywhere and is taking many more photos than she was with the D700. She uses a 501.4A and the 28/2.8A. She takes a lot of street photography and lots of photos of our 5 yea old. Yes, she misses some focusing at 1.4, especially if Niko is running around! But she also gets a lot more photos because Niko, our son, isn't so conscious of the M9. She also gets a lot more candid photos on the street because the camera is less obvious to passer-bys. As I said, she tried my M8 first. We both agreed that the M8 was a lot less appealing than the M9, so have since sold it with the idea that we will get another M9 (for me!) My thoughts: 1. See if you can borrow an M8 from your dealer- I'm sure you can do this if you are planning on buying an M9. 2. If you like it, go straight to the M9 + two lens (I would suggest 35mm and 75mm) others might suggest a different combo (e.g., 28 and 50). If I could only have one lens on an M9 it would be the 35/1.4A. If not that then 35/2.0A. Hope this helps. Best M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted October 3, 2009 Share #25 Posted October 3, 2009 Mark, there's no such thing as 'just' an amateur. Henri Cartier-Bresson once stated that he remained an amateur all his life. If you can't hire or borrow an M perhaps you could take your own SD card or roll of film to a shop, take some pics and then have a good look at the images later. But remember Leicas are addictive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photophile Posted October 3, 2009 Share #26 Posted October 3, 2009 I may get some naysayers here but...I have shot Leica ( M4, M6, M8 ) for decades and use them daily even now.. I have a large collection of Leica glass and one CV ( Ultron 2.0 28 ). I Also have every Nikon going back to the FE2, incl f3, f4, f5 and D200 ). Given the type of images you make - and they are very good on your smug mug site - I do not think that you, your wife or friends will appreciably see a difference in the pictures of your vacation or your son from the d200 to the leica - unless you plan to greatly enlarge the images. For most snapshots and computer screen images - the d200 and good nikon glass continues to take excellent photographs. Many of my best images ( exhibit/sales) were taken with the d200, are tack sharp to 17X22 and have outstanding color tone and character. The m9 ( or m8 for that matter ) with Leica glass, esp the lux ASPH are expensive and so sharp, that for young children they might be too surgical. In that case, the older pre-asph lenses might be smarter. In any event, I shoot mostly leica - but if I had the same shooting goals as you appear to have, save the money and take your child somewhere memorable with it...and memorialize it with the nikon. If you are convinced that you must give in to the leica pull - then listen to the advice others have given - buy a used m6 and an older 35 or 50 summicron. Shoot for a while and see if its your cup of tea. The m9 or m10 eventually - will still be there when you find that you MUST have one anyway. Good luck. Enjoy shooting often, no matter which system you use. Best. CH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingaun Posted October 3, 2009 Author Share #27 Posted October 3, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) At last i figured how to quote this thing ... She was lucky and got one of three M9 which have made it to New Zealand. She is now in love with this camera. She takes it with her everywhere and is taking many more photos than she was with the D700. She uses a 501.4A and the 28/2.8A. She takes a lot of street photography and lots of photos of our 5 yea old. Yes, she misses some focusing at 1.4, especially if Niko is running around! But she also gets a lot more photos because Niko, our son, isn't so conscious of the M9. She also gets a lot more candid photos on the street because the camera is less obvious to passer-bys. As I said, she tried my M8 first. We both agreed that the M8 was a lot less appealing than the M9, so have since sold it with the idea that we will get another M9 (for me!) Wow, good to hear that she found the M9 so good and best thing is she is using it all the time. Thats was what made me consider the Leica ... its the weight that keeps bothering me. Like i said, i just want to enjoy the process of making pictures. Mark, there's no such thing as 'just' an amateur. Henri Cartier-Bresson once stated that he remained an amateur all his life. If you can't hire or borrow an M perhaps you could take your own SD card or roll of film to a shop, take some pics and then have a good look at the images later. But remember Leicas are addictive. Thanks for the encouragement! Might see if i can borrow an M8 from the shop... I may get some naysayers here but...I have shot Leica ( M4, M6, M8 ) for decades and use them daily even now.. I have a large collection of Leica glass and one CV ( Ultron 2.0 28 ). I Also have every Nikon going back to the FE2, incl f3, f4, f5 and D200 ). Given the type of images you make - and they are very good on your smug mug site - I do not think that you, your wife or friends will appreciably see a difference in the pictures of your vacation or your son from the d200 to the leica - unless you plan to greatly enlarge the images. For most snapshots and computer screen images - the d200 and good nikon glass continues to take excellent photographs. Many of my best images ( exhibit/sales) were taken with the d200, are tack sharp to 17X22 and have outstanding color tone and character. The m9 ( or m8 for that matter ) with Leica glass, esp the lux ASPH are expensive and so sharp, that for young children they might be too surgical. In that case, the older pre-asph lenses might be smarter. In any event, I shoot mostly leica - but if I had the same shooting goals as you appear to have, save the money and take your child somewhere memorable with it...and memorialize it with the nikon. If you are convinced that you must give in to the leica pull - then listen to the advice others have given - buy a used m6 and an older 35 or 50 summicron. Shoot for a while and see if its your cup of tea. The m9 or m10 eventually - will still be there when you find that you MUST have one anyway. Good luck. Enjoy shooting often, no matter which system you use. Best. CH Thank you. Your advice is hitting me real real hard. I dont pixel peep, and i would like to see a difference in the picture. Deep down inside i fear i will not see much difference in picture quality but i still have my biggest problem, i am starting to dislike carrying so much stuff. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photophile Posted October 3, 2009 Share #28 Posted October 3, 2009 ...or buy a zeiss planar 50 1.4 prime for the d200 , and carry nothing else. learn to shoot primes first - then see if that suits your needs. or consider a d-lux p/s...good luck. btw...if you do decide you want one (not need)...you will enjoy a new way of seeing. best. ch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted October 3, 2009 Share #29 Posted October 3, 2009 Oh and one important benefit you get from going from zooms -> primes besides fast lenses: ease of use. There is no more zoom lever to play around, so you get one less thing to worry about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBC Posted October 3, 2009 Share #30 Posted October 3, 2009 Hi Mark, I just bought an M8 a month ago. I shoot almost just in vacations, family, weekends. I also have a d200 + 50mm 1.8+ 85mm 1.8 + other lenses. And use only the basics, aperture priority, iso, and even some times manual focusing with an old 20mm manual lens. I was tired of having to carry the big nikon. So I decided to buy the leica. If you like simple, the rangefinder is great. I bought the m8 and did not wait for the m9 because it was a usd3000 difference (know usd3500 with some dealers) money I now can use to buy a leica lens with. Now that a use the m8 I know this will not be the las M camera I will get, so I have plenty of time to buy more expensive cameras in the future. Pictures with the m8 are better than those form the d200, and I have a voigtlander 21mmf4. I hope that with leica lenses this quality will improve. M8 or M9, I will go for it without thinking, just dont sell your d200 you will still need it for tele shoots, and action. thanks Juergen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted October 3, 2009 Share #31 Posted October 3, 2009 For tele shots I would use the micro 4/3 system, Panasonic or Olympus to keep things small, or stick with Leica and buy a nice 90er or even the 135mm on the m9. Or buy a 90mm now and wait Leica to introduce a t a later time an X1 with changeable lenses, provided X1 will sell (it's pics must be better than 4/3). X1 is cool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
seemeng Posted October 3, 2009 Share #32 Posted October 3, 2009 Hi Mark, Are you based in KL? If you are, drop me a PM. I will round up our usual bunch of RF users for you to have a feel before you make the leap of faith. Happy to share. Best, See Meng Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingaun Posted October 3, 2009 Author Share #33 Posted October 3, 2009 Hi Mark, I just bought an M8 a month ago. I shoot almost just in vacations, family, weekends. I also have a d200 + 50mm 1.8+ 85mm 1.8 + other lenses. And use only the basics, aperture priority, iso, and even some times manual focusing with an old 20mm manual lens. I was tired of having to carry the big nikon. So I decided to buy the leica. If you like simple, the rangefinder is great. I bought the m8 and did not wait for the m9 because it was a usd3000 difference (know usd3500 with some dealers) money I now can use to buy a leica lens with. Now that a use the m8 I know this will not be the las M camera I will get, so I have plenty of time to buy more expensive cameras in the future. Pictures with the m8 are better than those form the d200, and I have a voigtlander 21mmf4. I hope that with leica lenses this quality will improve. M8 or M9, I will go for it without thinking, just dont sell your d200 you will still need it for tele shoots, and action. thanks Juergen Good advice Juergen. I am thinking along your line too. Might get an M8. For tele shots I would use the micro 4/3 system, Panasonic or Olympus to keep things small, or stick with Leica and buy a nice 90er or even the 135mm on the m9. Or buy a 90mm now and wait Leica to introduce a t a later time an X1 with changeable lenses, provided X1 will sell (it's pics must be better than 4/3). X1 is cool Thats cool. I can still use Leica lens in a light outfit. Might wait for EP2 because i think the IS in the body will help with the tele. Hi Mark, Are you based in KL? If you are, drop me a PM. I will round up our usual bunch of RF users for you to have a feel before you make the leap of faith. Happy to share. Best, See Meng Hi See, thank you for your help. I have PM you. Regards to all Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_dykstra Posted October 4, 2009 Share #34 Posted October 4, 2009 Hi Mark. Welcome. I haven't read all of the posts beneath your first one yet but thought I'd jump in with a counter to the line 'a Leica won't improve your photography'. Umm, ... yes it will! Here's why. With a Leica M camera, it's a very manual photo-making experience. This means that your head and your hands do all the work. Quite soon you'll find yourself getting the camera ready well before the shot even begins to present itself. You'll find yourself analysing the light, relative focal distances, background shades, necessary shutter speed, need for fill flash, etc ... in advance. This thinking process will make your photos better. Multiply that by the instant feedback that comes with a Leica M8 or M9 and your photography will improve out of sight. And you'll feel good about it, instead of wondering, "So what settings did the camera use for that?" You'll know, because you did it. Leica photographers can quote the aperture and shutter settings for favorite photos years later - they remember because their finger, eyes and brain made the setting changes. Now admittedly the M cameras from M7 onwards have an aperture priority auto mode. Handy, true, but don't use it to start with and you'll still gain from the manual learning experience. The lenses are indeed small and light. My Canon and Nikon using friends at work were impressed with how small the 35/1.4 Asph is. They were not impressed with how expensive it is, but that's part of the Leica story. Good things cost good money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted October 4, 2009 Share #35 Posted October 4, 2009 Nice pictures, both B+W and Hong Kong (I recognized the giant buddha). I think a Leica M would suit you well, and it is definitely a lot lighter and more compact than a DSLR. When traveling you just need to take a couple of extra lenses in a leather waist pouch. I'd recommend a 24 and 35 for for traveling and a 50 and 90 for portraits. The lenses are much smaller than their DSLR equivalents. Back and shoulder strain is a real concern for pro photographers. The only thing to get used to is rangefinder focussing. I started off with a rangefinder so find it easy, but I know others who started with a SLR find this way of focussing harder. As others have said, you need to try before you buy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingaun Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share #36 Posted October 4, 2009 Thanks Rick for the welcome and advice. Ya in that sense it will improve me a lot. Makes me think more before a shot. Good. David, glad you like the pictures. I walked few hundred steps to reach the top of the Buddha carrying my dslr system with a tripod and also a 12kg toddler in my arms!! I almost fell down on my way down because me leg gave way, i was that exhausted. A rangefinder would have lighten a little ....sorry make that A LOT! I think at this stage i have made up my mind, will be still getting the nikon zoom, too tempting for the NZ trip in a few weeks. Once i come back will shop around for an M8, maybe not so soon, see how the prices go. I have enjoyed all the help from you guys, its been a wonderful experience. But beware once i get a Leica, i am going to be asking you folks plenty of questions. warm regards Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laica Posted October 4, 2009 Share #37 Posted October 4, 2009 Mark, Enjoying this thread very much. I am not new to photography. Starting off with a Praktica and Meopta enlarger, I finally arrived at a Canon 5DMK2 with 3 heavy L lenses and studying photography besides my medical day job. I've been captivated by the M9 since its release as well but seriously don't think it will make you a better photographer. I use the 5DMK2 in manual mode, I compose and judge the light before I shoot. I autofocus with one central focus point en recompose just like you would with a Leica. There are two arguments in favor of the M9: - the superb lenses - the full frame size in a small package. And also arguments against it: - WYSINWYG - limited range in terms of focus lengths However, for street photography I do think RF make a difference being less obtrusive and seeiing more than the framing. I made up my mind. I'll be buying the M9 for sure and keep my 5DMK2 as I think that every photography project needs its own equipment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingaun Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share #38 Posted October 5, 2009 Mark,Enjoying this thread very much. I am not new to photography. Starting off with a Praktica and Meopta enlarger, I finally arrived at a Canon 5DMK2 with 3 heavy L lenses and studying photography besides my medical day job. I've been captivated by the M9 since its release as well but seriously don't think it will make you a better photographer. I use the 5DMK2 in manual mode, I compose and judge the light before I shoot. I autofocus with one central focus point en recompose just like you would with a Leica. There are two arguments in favor of the M9: - the superb lenses - the full frame size in a small package. And also arguments against it: - WYSINWYG - limited range in terms of focus lengths However, for street photography I do think RF make a difference being less obtrusive and seeiing more than the framing. I made up my mind. I'll be buying the M9 for sure and keep my 5DMK2 as I think that every photography project needs its own equipment. Hello Laica, Great to hear that you will be buying an M9. Good on you. I am sure you will have a wonderful time with those exotic glass. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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